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#1 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:39 PM

hey guys im trying to get my kohler k181 going and i went to turn over the starter generator and it only turned half speed,as it was turning it was kinda twitching too,anyone know what the problem is

#2 OFFLINE   WH854

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:50 PM

[QUOTE]854WH Posted on Just 6 minutes ago
hey guys im trying to get my kohler k181 going and i went to turn over the starter generator and it only turned half speed,as it was turning it was kinda twitching too,anyone know what the problem is

Never seen one do any twitching!!! :thumbs:
Chas
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1981, C-165 8 speed(used to be an Auto)
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#3 OFFLINE   Kelly

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:00 PM

Double check your cables, make sure mounting surfaces are clean, oil, dirt and paint will not allow current flow, try grounding the batt. right to the starter bracket, that way you know it's grounded good, let us know after all that, and make sure you have a good batt. try another one.

#4 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:23 PM

i already tried that i grounded everything right to the battery

#5 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 07:06 PM

does anyone know why my starter generator is moving half speed

#6 OFFLINE   Gene_S

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 07:12 PM

I would suggest pulling the gen/star apart and cleaning the com where the brushs ride. Maybe even replacing the brushes while your at it if your not afraid to take it apart.

If that doesn't help the windings might have a problem and may need to be rewound.

#7 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 07:21 PM

what are the windings(sorry new with these)

#8 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 07:25 PM

i already took it apart and my brushes are look fine,the thing is i got the thing rebuilt a while ago,and the guy did it wrong and i over heated a couple times,i think its the feild coils because they looked a little fried but im not sure.

#9 OFFLINE   Gene_S

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 07:31 PM

The windings are around the armature that cause the magnetic power to turn the starter. If the resistance is to low it would struggle to work. I'm no means an expert but this could be the problem.

#10 OFFLINE   stroker

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 08:03 AM

have seen field windings on starter/gen short to case on these ,causes wierd problems . usually can fix with piece of insulate paper between winding and case.

#11 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 08:07 PM

thanks for the help guys,but i recently went to a swap meet in englishtown nj and a guy sold me S/G for $25,im still having a problem though,today after i just hooked up the voltage regulater and polarized it,after 5 mins of the engine running the starter generator got pretty hot in the middle(i already opened it up and greased the bearings) what else can i do

#12 OFFLINE   iicap

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:41 PM

Hey there Garrett, lets see if we can walk you thru a couple of things, others will help too I'm sure.
1 Not familiar with an 854, does it have an ammeter on it? If yes, when running does it show that it is charging. If it is charging does the needle work its way back toward zero, after say running for 5 minutes or does the needle stay over to 5 or 10 amps or higher?

2 Trying to find from you if the SG is charging to high and causing this excessive heat. Give some more info. Is this tractor new to you? Is this SG problem something that has come up recently and had been fine before? Did you inherit the problem when you aquired the tractor?

3 We know the original SG gave you grief and now the used one you bought (it could have problems of its own) is acting up, so there could be a wiring problem with the tractor. Did the used SG come with a regulator or are you using yours?

Ok give us some answers and we'll go from there.

#13 OFFLINE   Save Old Iron

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:52 AM

Garrett,

The overheating issue may not be related to mechanical friction. It may be due to excessive current flow thru the generator due to a defective / mis-adjusted regulator.

Try this

start the tractor and disconnect the wire from the "F" Field terminal on the generator. Run the tractor (now without any charge going to the battery) and see if the generator still gets hot.

If so, either

1/ the fields are shorted to ground

2/ commutator is severely worn and brushes are sparking excessively

3/ this generator also has some mechanical issues with tight bearings or armature rubbing on the field shoes.

you may have to open up the replacement generator for inspection too.

a different part doesn't always make it a functional part

a new part doesn't always make it a functional part

If your battery charge is low and you're facing electrical adversity, come see us at SOI University !

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#14 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:49 PM

i just got in from taking the field terminal off and running it for 5 mins,and it still gets hot when its not charging(also do i have to repolarize the voltage regulator for it to charge again)also i did open the replacement generator when i first got it and it seemed to look fine the brushes had a lot of meat on them(nothing looked severly worn down)

#15 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:47 PM

forget my last post,i just recently got done running the engine with the field hooked up and it got a lot hotter in five minutes with it charging,if its the field coils can i just take them out and put insulation paper in between the coils and the base of the S/G

#16 OFFLINE   Save Old Iron

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 10:26 PM

,if its the field coils

done running the engine with the field hooked up and it got a lot hotter in five minutes with it charging


If you have an ammeter hooked up on the tractor - what is the charging current you see on the meter during the first 5 minutes ? The charge taken from a good battery should be easily replenished in 5 minutes and the charge current should taper down to almost nothing in a few minutes.

can i just take them out and put insulation paper in between the coils and the base of the S/G


Yes, if the short is from field wires to ground. If the short is field wire to field wire (melted within the bundle of field wires) the coil to case insulating paper will not be of any help. Only replacement of the field coil(s) will help.


ONE LAST TEST

start the tractor
disconnect the (+) battery cable from the (+) terminal of the battery - in this configuration, no current should be flowing thru the SG motor at all.

Any heat produced by the SG motor is now purely from mechanical friction.

Let's give it a try

If your battery charge is low and you're facing electrical adversity, come see us at SOI University !

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#17 OFFLINE   Save Old Iron

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 10:29 PM

do i have to repolarize the voltage regulator for it to charge again

No,

residual magnetism in the metal of the field shoe will keep the SG motor polarized properly for quite some time (months / probably longer).

If your battery charge is low and you're facing electrical adversity, come see us at SOI University !

http://saveoldiron.47.forumer.com


#18 OFFLINE   iicap

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 09:01 AM

Thanks SOI, you are getting to the point I was going(I think I was going :thumbs: ) a lot faster than I.

#19 OFFLINE   854WH

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:43 PM

i apprieciate your help,i did what you said and the charging did diminish in five minutes,but after that i took the S/G apart and noticed there were rub marks on the armature and the fields inside the S/G




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