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redtin

8 speed again

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Looks good so far when you get more pics especially of the 3rd & 4 th gear and the gear it slids on.. We can see more and how Bad.. I do have some gears here that are good out of parts tranny's.. May be able to help!!! :wh:

:thumbs: Duh!!!! 2nd & 3rd!!!! Sorry had a Steve attack!!! :D

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Thanks for hanging in there guys.

Steve might have to take you up on the gears if you think they have had it hope to post tomorrow not quite got it apart yet.

Dan

DSCF0007-3.jpg

DSCF0008-3.jpg

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OK, here goes. I am going to retract everything I said before. So today my plan was to work on the c-85, but damn its cold in the garage (and its snowing).

So what was I to do? I go to the basement and take the transmission I just rebuilt that my friend is coming over Saturday to get (its hers, but I gave here the one off my c-85 for it when the axle broke. I finally fixed it and she is coming over this weekend to swap it back for my transmission. If it does not make sense, don't worry - it doesn't matter.

Anyway here is a picture of the splined pinion gear:

DSCF7208.jpg

DSCF7206.jpg

now to me yours does not look bad.

to be continued...

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Hi dgiks6

Heavens snowing shiver! like spring here 11.5 c

great pic's yes been looking and it seems to be the norm a few chips at the top of the long spline is that very top part in use at any time!

Dan UK

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First - how the transmission works (I stole a picture of yours - please don't be mad - if anyone pays me for it I will split it with you)

The shifter gears travel up and down the splined pinion gear and the shifter gear engages one of these:

DSCF0007-3-1.jpg

for example when you want in neutral the shifter gears are like this:

DSCF7209.jpg

and no gears are engaged:

DSCF7221-1.jpg

In second gear, the midle gear is engaged:

DSCF7214.jpg

and first:

DSCF7215.jpg

DSCF7216-1.jpg

Third is hard to get a good picture of.

Does this make sense? If so I will keep going and giv eyou my new theories.

Forget about reverse for now - its a little more complicated.

does this make sense so far? If it does I will keep going.

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dgiks6

Thanks for the excellent post I am getting the hang of it I think but it's complicated to me just hope I can get it back together. Posted more pic's I could be wrong with my interpretation of the gears but the smaller one 2nd & 3rd I think has burring on the inside

not so clear on pic also the high low fork is worn

Your thoughts.

2ND3RD3.jpgNow having problems posting pic's keeps saying sorry dynamic pages (IMG not allowed

Dan

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That looks like it could be cleaned up and work just fine. What do you think, Greg?

The hi-lo shift fork is notorious for wearing on 8 speed trannies. I'd replace it while you've got the tranny open rather than having to go back in later. JMHO. :wh:

Duff :thumbs:

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Hi Dan,

Well I'm fairly certain that the other guys here will agree that there isn't anything yet that is likely to cause Gear Selection Problems.

Burrs at the end of the Splined Shaft are a natural cause of the pressures and sliding of the gears and they protrude into the 'Valley' and won't interfere .

I reckon the cause has yet to manifest itself and may be the Forks or the Shaft Detent Balls. ... I assume the Shaft Needle Bearings in each side of the Case are ok and the Gears are a good sliding fit on the splines.

Keep going and for now, don't worry about looking for new gears and shafts yet.

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I agree. Clean it up and work just fine.

I would check to make sure the fork is straight and true.

If all that checks out I would remove and clean the detent balls and spring.

When I rebuilt one of these I had a hard time with the 2nd and third gear also. I took it all apart and there was a bunch of junk in the hole where the shifter fork goes.

If you want me to post pics let me know.

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Hi Richard.

Thanks to all for input

Input shaft bearings seem good forks good except for high low gears slide ok

detent balls ok I did notice when removing the shifter shafts seemed hard to pull from the detent yet the ball looked good.

Dan

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Hi

Well strip completed and the only real problems I have found as in the pic's (1) 2nd & 3RD gear inside and on top outside edge (2) low and reverse outside top edge only high low fork look worn , What are your views on this would this be why it was so hard to select 2nd & 3rd should I replace or can they be saved it wood be a worker if repaired.

Dan

2nd3rdinsideview.jpg2nd3rdtopside.jpg2nd3rdotherend.jpgHiLowforkjpg2.jpg

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Hi Dan, Ok Yes , I reckon that's what is giving you a problem. It has probably been caused by the Prev Owner trying to select gear while the Clutch has not fully disengaged the drive and has wiped the Chamfer off the Gear Teeth ends.

I reckon if you could put a chamfer back on the flattened faces on that gear and the Mating faces of the gear it links to, it will select easier.

At the moment, when selecting, each Meshing gear is hitting the squared ends of the gear teeth and stopping them from meshing.

There should still be enough 'Teeth' width when meshed to prevent slipping out of mesh, but would seek the endorsement of other experienced members.

Finding a replacement may be a challenge.

Glad you've found a suspect.

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I agree with Richard. The teeth arent that bad, I've seen much worse.

I'd touch up the end of the teeth with a grinder, dont take off much. I'd smooth the sharp edge where the side of the tooth transitions into the bevel, and make sure the ends of the teeth do have some bevel rather than a flat face.

Top gear is the one they are prone to jumping out of, and you only have a small area of contact when they are engaged, so take off as little as possible.

Damage like this is always caused by grinding the gears together as they are engaged, either by not enough clutch disengagement or by shifting "on the fly".

The fork doesnt look too bad to me either, make sure it is not bent when looking at it from the side. You could hlod a square up against the shaft and see if its bent. (another fairly common problem).

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I agree with all that is being stated...gears look pretty good. Take a good look at the detente balls between the shifter forks...any flat spots could also help in your tough shifting. They are 1/4" balls and are readily available at Ace hardware stores over here. You can buy them one at a time for about 25 cents.

Don't worry about putting it together...all that stuff only fits in one way for the most part.

I opened a transs yesterday also, just in case you needed some parts :thumbs:

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My thanks to all I am most grateful for all your input.

Just posted one more pic of the hi low fork only last one was not that good a shot

is this well worn or can it be reused,also one shot of the gear in pic above post is the other end ie the good end just to compare.

Dan

HiLowfork-1.jpg

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It is hard to tell from the picture Dan, but I think it is supposed to be flat. :D I am more into the uni-drive transmissions at this point, which does not have the hi/low. Wait for one of the other guys to come in here...if it is supposed to be flat, you can tap it with a ball peen hammer to get there. :thumbs: Did you get all the gears cleaned up and you are ready to put this trans back together.??? :wh:

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That fork could probably be straightened but I would seriously recommend putting in a new one while you've got the tranny open if you can. The hi-lo shifter fork is one of the few weak points in these trannies, and if it's been stressed enough in the past to bend, it will bend again fairly easily - or break - in the future. :wh:

Duff :thumbs:

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OK - new theory here.

Could the bent hi/lo shifter fork be causing the problem?

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:thumbs: dgjks6

Looking at your hi low fork I think I will replace mine its much thiner on the edge

not sure about 2nd 3rd cant seem get a view of a good one its priced at around

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OK - new theory here.

Could the bent hi/lo shifter fork be causing the problem?

A bent fork would definately make the hi/low shift stiff as the fork would tend to bind up the sliding gear on its splines.

But I think it would have no effect on the shift between the other gears.

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Dan, Wise move on the Hi-Lo Fork, it's a 'Gonner'. As for replacing 2nd/3rd , it's your call, especially if your going to use those most of the time. The 1st/Rev is perhaps used less often Under Load :wh: .

Also when You've got it back together and using it, I have no doubt that you know how to treat a Box of Straight Cut non-synchromeshed Gears, unlike the P/Owner!.

If I can't select a gear with only light finger and thumb pressure on the lever, I will lift the Clutch Pedal very gently and feel the gears line up and mesh in.

Mind you, I did buy 2 Tranny Gaskets initially, so I have a spare on hand if needed ! :D .

P.S. I noticed your nice tidy workshop Peg Board in the picture background with items all bagged up !.....says a lot . :thumbs:

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Thanks Richard

yes I also ordered two gaskets and seals I think will go for new 2nd 3rd as you say its the most used I do almost every thing in 2nd or 3rd never needed to use the low setting even when ploughing soil,no the tidy workshop is dgjks6 wish mine was as spacious and tidy.

Dan UK

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no the tidy workshop is dgjks6 wish mine was as spacious and tidy. Dan UK

Stupid Me :thumbs: Thought it was a borrowed picture that Greg (dgjks6) used :D Tidy :wh:

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