What's wrong with my tractor ?

[bustedglass 1]

Hi Guy's

Not being much of a mechanic, I need to ask you guys a question. I was cutting grass yesterday with my little B211-3. It has a B/S Vertical Shaft 11 h.p. engine on it. The engine started to slow down, and started to smoke.

Well I got it to my shed and looked at it. The engine was HOT, HOT, HOT.....

I thought that I should change oil and see if that helped things.

The oil coming out was black, and very thin. And HOT, HOT, HOT ........ After changing oil, it started right up, and ran good. For about 30 seconds. Then it started to smoke (BAD), miss (BAD), and vibrate (BADDDD) ..

Like I said, not being much of a mechanic, what do you think could be wrong ? This little tractor is a 1985, and this is the first problem that I have had.

Should I investigate fixing it, or would the repairs be more than the machine is worth ???

[Rollerman 290]

I wish I could help you more with your B&S engine.

But one thing to always keep up on in air cooled engines is pulling the shroud every year & cealing the cooling fins.

Heat is the enemy on an air cooled engine.

PS I hope you can get it it back up & going or it's a minor repair for you though.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

If it was a typical 23 year old 211 Mike, it would probably be time to retire it. Since you have kept yours in such great condition, it would be worth an engine - or at the least, a shortblock. (which is probably NLA though.)

Weigh the odds and look at what is out there to replace it.... $900 for a tin can with an engine and a mower deck will never hold a candle to your Wheel Horse. For a third of that money (or less) you should be able to have the engine replaced - and probably even with a higher horsepower version.

It used to be relatively inexpensive to rebuild a Briggs, but even they are suffering from high priced and/or discontinued parts.

I'd say your best bet is to locate a newer tractor (like Craftsman or MTD) with a 12 or 13hp Briggs single cylinder engine and the typical blown transaxle . Chances are you'll find one for $200 or less if you look in the right place. As long as the crankshaft is the same size, it should work on your 211 without too many modifications.

We'll help you as best we can. :whistle:

[combatmp29r 27]

Mike, I agree with Stephen that you should start by pulling your engine shroud off and looking fro a mouse nest. at leaste one of mine has one each spring. As far as damage to the engine, it could be alot of stuff. Is it worth repairing, IMO yes. 11hp Briggs engines are a dime a dozen used and can normally be had pretty cheap. You may even be ble to find a 12 or 13 horse to sit on her. You just have to measure your output shaft and make sure the engine you find has a matching one. definately clean out the fins and see if that helps you first though. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

I'm going to go in another direction from these guys. You didn't say that it was burning oil, so maybe you have a fuel problem? Perhaps the choke is sticking closed, or float is sticking open? It makes perfect sense to clean out the engine under the covers, but I'm going with fuel problems, at this point anyway. Either way, that is a really nice machine, I would repair it before replacing it.

[combatmp29r 27]

I was thinking like stephen because of the hot very hot comment. Of course he hdidn't say where the smoke was coming from. :whistle:

[KyBlue 652]

Or what Color it is.. Oil Smoke (like bad rings) is usually white (least on the bigger motors) Too much fuel (like a stuck float) is black. I'd Suggest running a compression test to see what condition everything is in ... If its running, there isnt anything Major broke YET, but ....

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,342]

There are some good advice here. For it's age, that 11 hp Briggs has held pretty well. Unfortunately it isn't available anymore. If you really want to keep it, try and find a donor tractor as was mentioned. In the meantime, now would be a good time to upgrade to an used Wheel Horse, say a C-series, or a newer 300, 400 or 500 series. :whistle:

[catman81056 3]

The motor getting hot quick and slowing, starting to shake and run ruff after an oil change. It sounds like it was starting to sieze.

Just my .02

[KyBlue 652]

^^^^ That was my thinking.

[linen beige 14]

Maybe the easiest thing to check, just to eliminate it as a cause, is, remove the muffler. It may be stopped up. That would cause it to overheat in about thirty seconds. The overheating would then cause it to start seizing. If it was only STARTING to seize because of the heat, it MAY not be damaged. BUT if you do find that it was only a clogged muffler, DO go ahead and clean ALL the fins, change the spark plug, change the oil, clean the air filter, and make sure the carb is adjusted right. If these steps get you working again but she has started to use oil because of the seizing, at least she'll run a while longer while you scrape up parts or a replacement.

[linen beige 14]

Maybe the easiest thing to check, just to eliminate it as a cause, is, remove the muffler. It may be stopped up. That would cause it to overheat in about thirty seconds. The overheating would then cause it to start seizing. If it was only STARTING to seize because of the heat, it MAY not be damaged. BUT if you do find that it was only a clogged muffler, DO go ahead and clean ALL the fins, change the spark plug, change the oil, clean the air filter, and make sure the carb is adjusted right. If these steps get you working again but she has started to use oil because of the seizing, at least she'll run a while longer while you scrape up parts or a replacement.

I didn't think to ask, was it getting hot while running with no load? Or did it not get hot until a load was placed on it? If it only gets hot under load, you probably have something else causing the Briggs to work much harder than it is designed to.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

I have a 12hp Briggs vertical engine that actually burnt up. (heat seized)

The previous owner never removed the blower housing in the 10 or 12 years he owned it and the chaff build-up completely covered the top of the cooling fins. The engine would turn over by hand (but not by the starter) but was very tight. When I pulled it apart, I found the wristpin was all but seized in the small end of the connecting rod / piston. The piston had also started to "smear" from the lack of lubrication. (It was full of oil - but the engine was so hot it just cooked it off of the internal parts.) Piston rings will lose their ability to seal correctly once they get overheated - which usually results in excessive smoke.

After I cleaned all of the chaff off the cylinder, I also noticed the plastic plug on the end of the magneto "kill" wire was melted!

This tractor (Murray) should have caught on fire, but the chaff was packed so tightly around the cooling fins that it couldn't get the oxygen to burn! :whistle:

[bustedglass 1]

I want to thank EVERYONE who responded. Like I said, I am not a mechanic, so I will have to wait till I can get it into my local small engine repairman. But armed with your advise, I wont look compleatly :imstupid: ..

I ALWAYS blow off the tractor / deck, and cooling fins with compressed air after I mow. I make sure to keep the air filter clean, and un-clogged. And, I change the oil when required.

As you can see on my avatar, I have the stack muffler on it, and I dont think that it is clogged. It was getting hot and blowing whiteish color smoke out of the stack while under NO load.

My neighbor, who knows a little about a lot of things , says it could be a rod, or rings ??? He has a MTD with a 20h.p. Vert. Twin Briggs on it. Sure would like to find one of those to put on my little horse .

At any rate, keep the comments / recomendations coming, and hopefully, my little horse wont be in the stable long. I have decided that I am NOT putting her to sleep at this time. She's just getting broke in .

[linen beige 14]

Mike,

After the better description of symptoms, it sounds like you have a valve, ring, or rod problem. Slight chance that it could be timing related, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

If you do change the engine, now would be a good time to go with a Kohler. A little more exspensive, but a lot more engine.

[Confused99 2]

Here is one on ebay with a bad rear end

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wheel-Horse-211-3-Whee...1QQcmdZViewItem

Jason

[Anthony Wendover 124]

Here is one on ebay with a bad rear end

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wheel-Horse-211-3-Whee...1QQcmdZViewItem

Jason

thats down the road from me.. Surprising

[bustedglass 1]

Hi Guys,

The repair service that I took it to is saying that because I put that exaust stack on with all of the pipe, the engine is holding too much heat and probably burnt a valve or something else .

He wont have time to tear into it for another week or more because of his back log.

I like the way the stack looks, but I dont want anymore problems, once I get it fixed. Should I put the original muffler back on, or maybe put the stack on the carburator side of the engine ? That way, I wont have so much pipe as I have now. What do you guy's think ??? HELP, HELP, HELP...........

[linen beige 14]

If there are several inches of piping at the start of the run that are below the exhaust port, and the piping is a smaller inside diameter than the original, then he may have a point. That pipe would act like a heat trap above a water heater. But if it's not much prior to turning up and into the stack, then take it to a mechanic, not a muffler salesman. The upright stack is probably more free flowing than the original muffler and being above the engine would act as a heat sink and actually help cool the engine. To answer the question about the stack's location, the shortest, most uphill pipe route is the way to go. You've probably noticed that a large number of the guys on here, who REALLY know their stuff, ('Horse sense) have at least one tractor with a stack. They don't seem to have a problem with the stacks causing too much heat. But, most all of these tractors have horizontal shafts and the stacks run straight out, then turn up as soon as possible.

[Rollerman 290]

Mike I'd say you may want to look into another mechanic....

He may have a point if you are restricting the exhaust.

I'm going to side with Jim...I'd say your stack is less restrictive than the stock setup.

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Your rings went south...

Likely scored the cylinder wall and burnt the piston.

Mike

Niles, Mi

[linen beige 14]

Your rings went south...

Likely scored the cylinder wall and burnt the piston.

Mike

Niles, Mi

I totally agree! Don't know why I didn't catch it earlier, :imstupid: but a burned valve shouldn't cause it to use oil. At this age an oil control ring spacer likely has folded over and cut the bore. :whistle:

[bustedglass 1]

Thanks guys for the additional help. I am going to move the exaust pipe and stack to the carburator side of the engine while I am waiting for the mechanic to get me on his schedule . That way, I wont have as much pipe restricting the exaust flow (if I am in fact restricting anything, that should make him happy), but still have the "look" that I like. :WRS:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,342]

Mike,

When is it going in to the shop for the tear down? Just curious, as I would hate to see it cost you too much to get it fix.

[bustedglass 1]

I have NOT heard from the mechanic yet I will call him tomorrow to find out what is going on, and how far down I am on his schedule now. Will keep you posted............. Thanks for the interest. You guys are great .