You will get a charge out of this!

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Welcome to another installment of the continuing learning series provided by the great folks at SOI_University.

In this installment, we will examine a single piece off a Raider 12 I acquired.

First a little teaser.....

Here is the part

Let's do an autopsy on this piece and see why there are so many folks complaining about tractors not cranking properly.

I am offering up the coveted limited edition "SOI Was Here" Decal to the person who can guess the highest number of issues with this simple ground strap assembly. This one has even the master shaking his head saying "Why did they even bother".

So let me hear all the individual faults you can see and some of those you may only suspect are present on this lowly ground strap.

All will be revealed later this weekend. I bet there is something very special under the electrical tape! But you will have to tune in later this weekend to find out.

As always, any and all comments are welcome.

[pfrederi 17,130]

Overall corrosion

Eyelet looks undersized (thickness)

The wing nut clamp to attach wire to terminal

Untwisted wire strands (Internal corrosion)

Terminal can be obtained in + - and a universal (one size fits none in my opinion) I can't tell which one this is

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Outstanding Paul,

but keep going, you are on a roll.

There is something to see under the electrical tape.

Any guesses ?

[littleredrider 408]

Looks like fuel or rubber line of some sort...

[pfrederi 17,130]

For under the tape, some sort of splice (seems to be more wire (diameter) at the terminal end than at the eyelet end)

My other hobby is old farm tractors, all 6v some Pos some neg ground. Bottom line on those, you need big wire to get them to crank in the cold. Single or double OO welding cable is what I am replacing all my cables with.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

littleredrider,

thanks for chiming in

the bluish section is actually wire insulation

but a small hint - where is the blue insulation where it enters the ring terminal - now its black !

what's going on here in this 6 inch piece of innocent looking wire :wh:

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,460]

I wonder if its two pieces of wire not spliced but "braided or twisted" under the tape.

A very poor connection for use on something that vibrates like our Wheel Horses.

Mike..........

[Raider 12 0]

It must be that someone has, dare I say tried to "fuse" two wires together and then tape them up?

[Butch 194]

They used acid core solder to solder the wire together which is promoting even more corrosion.

If you can grab the cable at the battery terminal and turn it by hand, which I find on many batteries where cars don't start, then it wasn't tight enough on the terminal.

Butch

S. Jersey

[Horse'n Around 22]

It looks to me like there are two pieces of cable spliced together of different guages. One is much thinner than the other.

John

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Great start to the post!

Thanks to all contributing so far. All excellent point to be discussed later this weekend.

How about a comment or two about the faults which could be introduced by a corroded cinch bolt on the battery terminal. Any issues there ?

[squonk 38,862]

The corroded end will cause higher starter draw amps causing excessive wear to the starter as well as stress and overheating. Also possibly the same damage could happen to the positive cable as well. Also if there are any other ground wires on the tractor the whole shebang could try to go through that wire instead (the path of least resistance) and fry that wire also. Seen that on cars plenty of times. Mike

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Also possibly the same damage could happen to the positive cable as well.

Mike, good point and the positive cable was just as bad electrically, but not as interesting to look at.

Thanks for your contribution here.

[puddlejumper 67]

Keep it up SOI I took the original key switch apart today in my 701 a little cleaning and shazam works like new. But took ammeter apart got disgusted because I couldnt find the open circuit got Intentionally rough handed to get a little deeper and the crack showed . If I had held my cool a little longer a little solder would have fixed it. But oh well I"ll know where to look next time.Honestly some things are just better off replaced, but most of us here I believe are tinkerers at heart or we wouldnt be doing this to start with. :)

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Also possibly the same damage could happen to the positive cable as well.

Mike, good point and the positive cable was just as bad electrically, but not as interesting to look at.

Thanks for your contribution here.

Mike,

here is a pic of the positive cable from the same tractor.

again, not quite as visually interesting.

Just a side note on why (I believe) this topic is important to discuss.

In the short time I have been on the RS site, I have attempted to help many people thru some rather tough electrical issues with tractors. On many occasions, I have been side tracked in my troubleshooting efforts by making assumptions on the physical condition of several simple but critical components on these tractors. I ASS - U - ME d others would naturally see how bad connections like this where and I failed to ask questions regarding the condition of these components. Hopefully this post will allow us all to gain a better understanding of the pitfalls of poor wiring and how to recognize the signs of poor wiring techniques.

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Just by finger pressure alone, I was able to push away this much of the 6 AWG copper strands. Engine turning a little slower than normal or having more "hard starting" issues ?

And whats up with all those dent marks in the top of the terminal connector ?

As I said before, makes you wonder why someone even bothered to "camouflage" the strands that were totally useless in carrying any current to the battery.

Those who help others, be aware. There are folks out there who might think this wiring is just fine to start an engine.

[bmuone 15]

Looks to me like there was too big a "wad" of wire strands for the ole boy to twist around the screw in one direction. So he split the strands...part left and part right...and screwed her down for the duration. When it got loose he screwed her down some more. When it would not crank, he took punch and started pinging the post.

[DMK855 15]

And BTW, I would have to say that there is a butt splice connector uner that tape. And they more than likely had to cut away most of the strands to "make it fit"!!

[Brrly1 1,146]

Chuck, I have seen the man many times in concert. I definitely agree with your idea of him enjoying what he does you can tell that just by watching him on the screen and also in his dvd's. He has a Great talent as you also do. When it comes to electronics you have a knack for it. I read your posts and love the squirrels. Besides that I think a Pink Flyd song would sound good while strolling thru the posts here on Red Square. Take care. See Ya, Bye Burly

:)

[bitten 133]

I will start from one end and work my way down.

The eyelet (hole) on the ring terminal looks to be to big with the swirl marks that held it down are only covering half of it, loosing contact surface. Looks like there could be paint on it but cant tell from the corrosion.

The wire looks to be to small on the ring terminal . We do not know what is beneath the tape but electrical tape is not the way to isolate or insulate whatever connection is under there. I would suspect that the splice is not correct, even though you don't want a splice in a wire to begin with.

Looks like the insulation on the bigger wire is starting to break down. There is not a good connection to the battery terminal ( which looks to be the wrong terminal). If there was a proper terminal used to connect the wire to the battery terminal there would have been no need to use a washer that would rust. Doesn't look like you had to use a wrench to get it off of the battery because the rust doest look like it was disturbed meaning that it was loose or not as tight as it should be on the battery. There is just to much rust and corrosion on the battery terminal.

I'm sure that I have missed something but there is a good start. Look forward to seeing what is under the tape and what I have missed in my observation.

P.J.

[DMK855 15]

So, what is under the tape................ :thumbs:

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Well, now that I'm back from my beauty nap, let's put a fresh set of batteries in the camera and crank out a few more pictures to answer DMK's question.

I'm heading down to the workshop right now and should be back after dinner to show what is under that darn tape.

Ya'll behave yourselves until I get back. I promise you all there will be plenty more to learn as the post continues.

I also appreciate the passion and commentary from all participants here. Try not to make a glass parking lot out of this post until I get back!

[Save Old Iron 1,563]

Thanks guys for allowing me my beauty rest.

Well , here we go. This has got to leave just one question in your mind

WHY.

I show this to illustrate a point that anyone who takes on the task of "long distance" troubleshooting with a fellow tractor enthusiast should keep in mind.

I bet someone said "Yeah, the ground cable is good cause I just took care of it".

"What else should we check next?"

the hidden secret under the crispy, water soaked electrical tape.

amazing! acid core solder on only the outer layers of the bundle - allowing the inner section of the bundle to corroded and become useless to carry current

and acid core - it will sit there for years eating away at solder joint.

love the fact the insulation is burned away to almost nothing.

and then take this "ground strap" and connect it to a painted over mounting hole on the chassis.

hope the threaded hole is clean - nope, the bolt and the threaded section of the mounting hole both corroded.

my internet provider is a little flaky tonight - so talk amongst yourselves and will go over a few extra items on how to repair this strap - no no just joking. Bob had it right before - $5.99 at TSC solves the problem with a new strap.

My purpose here is to make all aware of EVERY part of the strap where wire meets connector or connector meets chassis could cause a loss of ground on the tractor.

Tomorrow we will get into that a little deeper.

@ducky - sorry dude, I won't be able to catch you in the chat room tonight

@squonk - thanks for crowd control while I slept - your a funny guy ....

[3spaniels 0]

As for the dents in the cable clamp...I would be concerned that beating the clamp in place may have cause some internal damage to the battery. Perhaps knocked off some plate material, or damaged the post connection with the plates, etc. Knocking off enough plate material could short some plates and kill a cell or diminish its ability to generate voltage and current.

In addition, and it is probably less important on garden tractors than automobiles since lights and other accessories seem to have their own return line these days, a good ground from the battry to the engine, engine to chassis and chassis to body are rather important, too.

By the way, I for one would like to see a SOI University class room pinned to the top of the page! :thumbs:

[rick 215]

Believe it or not, I see crap work like that on police cars all the time. Not where I work; at the Virginia State Police Communications install shop, but on the local enforcement agencies whose cars I work on at home. One car was running all the emergency equipment on one #10 wire! He said there was a burning smell when he activated the lights.....several of the yellow butt connectors had turned brown. One of the nearby Motorola shops doesn't do much better, either.

Bottom line, find someone you can trust and pay him on time!