Philipp

installing an electric lift

36 posts in this topic

Hello everyone

A few months ago I made a post about an electric lift on my c-161. Now I'm installing it but I have a problem.

DSC02754.jpg

The actuator is brand new, the kit is bought on ebay and came of a 520.

When the actuator is retracted (the highest position) the bracket on the rockshaft is vertically. With the manual lever it came higher.

DSC02756.jpg

DSC02762.jpg

DSC02761.jpg

But when I extend the actuator, the thingy on the rockshaft (I think it's called bellcrank) touches the sheet metal of the dash tower with the lift bracket where you connect the tiller cable with. The acuator can easily damage this.

DSC02755.jpg

DSC02758.jpg

The actuator has a stroke of 4", so this is its fully extended lenght.

DSC02760.jpg

I don't think this is right, I should be able to use its fully stroke. But everything is original (I hope) and the new actuator has exactly the same dimensions as the old one. I think the best thing I can do is remove the actuator more to the front, but then I will have to make a new bracket.

I don't understand why it doesn't works. A 520 has the same frame as the c-series right?

Best Regards Philipp and because you guys like pictures:

DSC02336.jpg

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mooie fotos philipe

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I have a factory electric lift (Kit #8-4225) on a 516. I dont have a picture of it fully extended, but when retracted it looks like things are the same as yours:

IMG_2852.jpg

But mine only has a 2" stroke. Fully closed (pin ceter to pin center) 10", fully extended 12".

Moving your bracket might just cause problems at the other end of the range. Is there somewhere you can wire in a limit switch to turn off power to the motor when it gets to fully up on the bellcrank?

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Thank you for the picture. A few months there was an actuator for a Wheel Horse on Ebay. I asked the seller for the dimensions and he said the stroke was 4"... That's why I bought this one.

So it looks to it that I bought the wrong actuator...Like you said there is something like a "fixed electronic stroke limit or ESL". But I can't find a place where they sell something like that.

2" seems not much to me. Haven't you got any problems with this small stroke when e.g. using the dozer blade? I am going to measure everything really good to see if making a new bracket is a possibility. That would be the second solution.

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The proper stroke for that type of electric lift is 2". You were provided with the wrong actuator.

The fact that the stoke is only 2" doesn't mean it won't lift the attachments high enough, the system is designed to be used with a 2" stoke actuator (which is why 4" doesn't work).

My guess for what happened, the seller had an electric lift set up with a fried actuator and since 2" stroke actuators are difficult to find, provided a 4" instead. Who knows if he knew it wouldn't work or not.

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The right way to fix it would be to get an actuator with a 2" stroke.

If you have to work with what you have, maybe you could wire in a microswitch to limit the travel.

7779k13p1lmicroswitch.png

I'm not sure what your tractor has in the way of safety switches on the PTO or the seat, but the 500 series horses use switch's like these. You could mount one so the bellcrank touches the lever and turns off the power to the "lengthening" side of the actuator. :thumbs:

EDIT: Sorry forgot about your other question.

2" seems not much to me. Haven't you got any problems with this small stroke when e.g. using the dozer blade?

I've never had a blade on that tractor, but I dont see that it would be a problem. It worked fine with the mower deck.

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Remove the plastic cover from the non-moving end of the actuator. There is a decent chance there is an adjustable limit switch that will allow you to adjust the maximum stroke down to 2 inches (or as needed).

Let us know what you find.

:wh::thumbs: :)

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Thank you for your responses. I took a good look in manuals of the actuator and the stroke is limited by a clutch. So I can't change the stroke without an ESL.

I'm going to search one of these, it will be probably the easiest solution.

Nevertheless I'm still thinking about making a new bracket. First I'm going to see if it's really a big advantage of having a bigger stroke. The only reason (I think) why the original actuator is only 2", is because it also had to fit 2 cylinder javascript:emoticon(':thumbs:') tractors. But again if it works on those, why should I change it? Just thinking out loud...

Greets Philipp

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Philipp,

you could easily add a "dead man" limit switch as Mike suggested

Some actuators have a power feed line to both the in and out functions. If you only have 2 leads to the actuator motor, we can still come up with a circuit to limit the travel by microswitch.

If you have separate in and out power leads,

On the OUT power line - insert a microswitch or microswitch relay combination into the power feed line. The micro could be activated by the bracket near the actuator itself or could be mounted by the bell-crank you mentioned. Either way, hyperextension of the actuator rod would break the power to the OUT power and only leave the option of IN power to be applied.

The bracket would be much less trouble to fab up due to supporting of the microswitch and wiring only. Fabrication of a bracket to hold the actuator and load might require much more skill and $$$'s and consume more room inside the tractor. And quite honestly, I think you will be trading a problem at the extend end of the travel for a problem at the retract portion of the travel. You may benefit from some degree of "down force" on the attachment with a solid mount instead of a chain mount but will most likely run into some part of the mechanism suffering from repeated hyperextension of the actuator.

On some systems I have worked with, current sensing is used to tell when the actuator is physically overloaded or jammed. A circuit is used to either shut down the power or limit the current to where the actuator will not harm itself with excessive current demand.

If you post a clear pic of the what type of wiring is present on the actuator, I'll be happy to help out.

Let us know.

:thumbs:

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At risk of making an Ass-u-me, if its the same as the factory kit wiring, here is the schematic from the manual:

810705R1pdf-AdobeReader1114201075720AM-1.jpg

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The only reason (I think) why the original actuator is only 2", is because it also had to fit 2 cylinder tractors.

You are thinking that if it's 2", it must be insufficient but that is not true. It has to do with the length of the "levers" it moves on the bell crank. Their lenght, in conjunction with the stroke of the actuator moves the rock shaft in it's full sweep.

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I will post a picture of the wiring later on. It's the same as Mike posted but I will need a relay to make it complete. I think I'm getting the system with the relays so it can retract but not extend.

I also made a few measurements. If I make a solid link to my dozer blade and I have a 2" stroke, the blade at the front will go up and down 15 cm. If I have a 4" stroke it will go up and down 28cm... The front axle stands about 25 cm of the ground.

But even with making a new bracket it will be a tight fit. So I will probably need the system with the microswitches.

Another thing I wondered: When the actuator is at the end of its stroke, the clutch starts to slip. Is it built for doing this, or am I damaging it?

And I have also a little question about the sheet metal. I thought the side panel will be basically the same, but twice as wide at the top if you know what I mean, I will post pic. But then the panel rubs against the rear fender and I can't attach it to the footrests properly. Maybe I can fix this with little tubes and longer bolts?

In an hour I will get some pics.

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I don't think you will have clearance to use the 4" stoke unless you lenghten the "levers" on the bell crank.

The clutch is suppossed to slip when you are at the end of the travel.

The side panel is different, it sits out about an extra inch over the foot rest. You can modify yours by adding to the lip at the top to get it out beyond the actuator and on the bottom, you use a longer screw with a spacer to attach it to the footrest.

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I think you are getting confused about the stroke Phillip.

2" of stroke at the actuator gives you more stroke than that at the end of the (longer) lever inside the dash tower. The 2" stroke of the actuator should give you the same amount of lift of the blade as the manual setup gave you.

My actuator "clicks" from the clutch at the end of the travel.

My tractor is buried a little right now, I will try to get a picture of the side panel today if I get time.

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Okay, first the wiring:

DSC02765.jpg

DSC02766.jpg

I will need to install a relay and connect it to the ignition switch to see the amps right?

In the mean time I installed the engine pulley of a hydro:

DSC02771.jpg

The bracket must keep the actuator in place like this:

DSC02769.jpg

DSC02767.jpg

To compare the amount of lift of the standard actuator with the manual lift I did the following:

I connected the 2 rockshafts together

DSC02781.jpg

when the manual lever is up:

DSC02782.jpg

(note: the vertical green line lift of the blue dot is were the actuators lift bracket comes standard.)

Now when it's down:

DSC02783.jpg

DSC02784.jpg

For comparison with the actuator fully retracted:

DSC02756.jpg

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And I have also a little question about the sheet metal. I thought the side panel will be basically the same, but twice as wide at the top if you know what I mean, I will post pic. But then the panel rubs against the rear fender and I can't attach it to the footrests properly. Maybe I can fix this with little tubes and longer bolts?

Here are some pictures of the side panel Phillip.

IMG_3097.jpg

It only attaches in 3 places, 2 bolts at the top (like normal) and one lower down with a spacer behind it. It does not attach to the footrest at all, and stops just slightly forward of the rear fender (it doesnt "tuck in" behind it).

IMG_3096.jpg

Not much clearance to the actuator either...

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Thank you for the photos Mike, I will try to work on it this weekend.

Best Regards Philipp

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I finally found some time to finish the bracket:

DSC02790.jpg

DSC02791.jpg

DSC02792.jpg

It will get some paint on it, but I still have to make a sidepanel. But it's a good start.

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Sorry to high jack your thread, but these things are about a scarce as hens teeth and I would sure like to get my hands on one.

Has anyone found another source for the actuator itself ? If not, is some one who owns one willing to take some measurement ? We know it need a 2" stroke :ychain: Any guess at how much force ?

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The measurements of the actuater are in one of my posts above.

There are no part #'s on mine, the end of the gearbox has "MCSD" and then "Warner Electric" cast into it.

Part # for the kit is (was) 8-4225. Dont remember where I downloaded the manual for it, but it was easy to get -Yahoo or mywheelhorse.com or maybe even Toro.

.

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The measurements of the actuater are in one of my posts above.

Yep, I found the stroke (10" - 12").

Can you put a tape on the end cap for height and width ?

From some limited research (Google is great isn't it) I have found that some (most?) 2" stroke actuators are shorter (about 8" or less) while some (most?) 4" stroke ones are close to 10" retracted.

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Philipp - Can you get the part number off of the actuator that you have ?

Also, if you don't mind

  • [*:34imbis2]What is the approximate offset and height from the frame of the stationary end bracket ?[*:34imbis2]What is the length (center to center) of the bell crank ?

Last odd question (for awhile)

Why did you change the engine pulley ?

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Okay, I got a partial part number off one of Phillipp's pictures. The actuator appears to be a Warner Electric B Track Linear Accuator, probably a K2vlG20 or a K2G20. The DN in the part number means it has a Delron "nut" in the drive mechanism (bronze (BR) is also available). According to the manufacturers spec sheet a 2" stroke model is available for both (The K2vl is the "value line").

These are really strong actuators, capable of about 500/800 lbs force at 20 amps, respectively.

Now things get tricky. If you get the 2" stroke model the retracted length is about 8.3". If you get the 4" stroke model the retracted length is about 10.3". The K2 model should have a built in adjustable limit switch. So you get the 10" retracted length and 12" extended length you can buy a 4" stroke model and adjust the limit switch.

OR

The rod end is threaded on and they sell a 1" (don't show 2") extended rod end or a threaded rod end that you can put a spherical joint on (which could give you about 2").

From the factory kit (8-4225) the Lift Arm (111278) show as still available from Toro but the Front Mounting Bracket (112178) is not.

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From the factory kit (8-4225) the Lift Arm (111278) show as still available from Toro but the Front Mounting Bracket (112178) is not.

Sorry Phillip, we are hijacking your thread pretty badly here. :ychain:

My 516 is currently buried (engineless) in the back of my shed, but here are some pictures of the mount:

untitled.jpg

IMG_2832_cropped.jpg

IMG_2831_cropped.jpg

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I would love to get some drawings of those brackets. Maybe we can get someone to fab up a dozen or so for "old folks" like me who want to add an electric lift.

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