K241 Stuck Valve

[yokomist 0]

Hello,

This is a continuation of this thread:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=21733

So its official, I have a stuck Valve (exhaust I believe)

Here are some photo's of what I found when I removed the head:

And a video of the engine being turned over by hand:

What is the best course of action to take?

I am going to get the new head gasket and a torque wrench in a couple of hours. What elese will I need? Should I get a valve lapping kit from an auto parts store?

Thanks!

Bevan

[sorekiwi 761]

Looks like your valve is stuck alright!

I'd pull out both valves, clean them up (both the head of the valve and the stem), clean out the valve guide, and lap both valves in. Its not uncommon for valves to stick when they've sat for a while.

You should probably get a valve spring compressor too. You'll probably have trouble finding one small enough at an auto parts store. This is the one I use the most: http://www.mowergraveyard.com/valve-spring...nes-p-1834.html

Not sure if mine is made by Stens or not, but someone should be able to get one in for you.

[pumper.atv 26]

I got a nice spring compressor from Napa

:USA:

[yokomist 0]

Did Napa have that on the shelf?

Thanks!

Bevan

[pumper.atv 26]

I thought so it was a few years ago though.

:USA:

[Anglo Traction 759]

Hi Bevan, don't forget that you probably have ACR on that engine, so the Exhaust Valve will not fully close on the Firing Stroke (for when you Lap the valves)......

Your looking to go from this-

to this-

Stick at it...your on home stretch!

[WH nut 553]

Buy the looks of it, its time for a bebuild, there is alot of oil getting past the rings and guides

[HankB 16]

Buy the looks of it, its time for a bebuild, there is alot of oil getting past the rings and guides

In addition, the clean spot near the top of the piston in the first picture indicates there is some blow by there.

-hank

[yokomist 0]

Thanks for the reply Mike,

As expected you were right on target about not being able to find a valve spring compressor locally. I guess I will have to order one offline and wait.

I will also need to educate my self in the mean time with lapping valves!

Cheers Bro

Hank and WH Nut, thanks for your comments too. Hopefully I can get away with avoiding a rebuild for right now. Do you think it will run if I wait on the rebuild?

Thanks!

Bevan

[yokomist 0]

Holy Cow Anglo, How did you get that so clean and pretty?

Does anyone have an article on lapping valves?

Thanks

Bevan

[sorekiwi 761]

Cheers Bro

No worries mate!

Hopefully I can get away with avoiding a rebuild for right now. Do you think it will run if I wait on the rebuild?

I'd do your valves and see how she runs. If its too smoky you can rebuild it then, and all you've lost is a head gasket. I've got engines that would probably run better if I put a set of rings in them, but they'll also run OK for another couple of years if I dont as well.

Gotta be careful 'round here, people will have you tearing everything apart just cause its 40 years old!

As expected you were right on target about not being able to find a valve spring compressor locally. I guess I will have to order one offline and wait.

Napa could probably order one in for you. The Autoparts store I always try to use (a little Mom & Pop type place) can get Stens stuff in the next day, so you might get lucky.

Here's a link to the Napa one: http://catalog2.genpt.com/catviewer15/(S(c...5932_0215388769

If the link doesnt work the part # is SME 705932

There's bound to be lots on the nudie-net about lapping valves, I havent got time to look now, if you havent found something later I'll have a look.

[WH854 44]

Bevan here are some pictures of my stuck valve.

I had a stuck exhaust valve in my 16HP kohler engine. I sprayed carb cleaner down the exhaust port,left it sit a while,put piston all the way to top.pushed valve down,closed.opened valve up again by turning the fly wheel by hand.kept doing that for a while until it would close by itself. Use lots of oil to!!

Put engine at top dead center,used a wire wheel in a drill to clean all the crap of everything,the carb cleaner will soften the carbon buildup good

Thats how I did it,it worked for me, the engine runs like a new one.Check this thread out.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12803

Chas :USA:

[Anglo Traction 759]

Hi Bevan, I agree with Mike, just sort the Valves n Seats, bolt it back together.

It will run, the Kohlers are built for it.

I cleaned my 'Top End' up after I squirted a neat Fuel Additive called Redex (uk) into the S/plug hole initially, and again when the Head was off.

It does the same as what Chas mentioned with Carb Cleaner. I had the benefit of time, unlike yourself, a good Tool Stock and perhaps a bit of familiarity?.

The Carbon build-up loosened and could be cleaned off fairly easily. then polished with fine Wet or Dry paper (p600). I always use a Scraper tool that is Softer than the parent Metal I'm cleaning. You can use a piece of thin rigid plastic , cut in the form of a shallow hook to remove the carbon residue between the cylinder wall and Piston Head. It's worth checking the Head for Flatness on a sheet of glass.

That's all in the Service Manual you have. Keep at it ! , you'll be really chuffed when she fires up after this.

Regards

[HankB 16]

Do you think it will run if I wait on the rebuild?

I have an 8hp Tecumseh that has a much bigger clean spot on the piston head due to scoring of the cylinder wall. That doesn't seem to affect the way it runs.

I'm with the guys that suggest fixing the immediate problem and putting it back together to see what you got.

edit: Said "clean spot on the cylinder" and meant piston head

[yokomist 0]

Thanks guys for all the replies and tips.

I will spray her down with carb cleaner in the AM.

I went to my father in laws today to borrow some tools and he had a valve spring compressor. Its a big one but I thought I would give it a shot before buying a small one.

I know I can get a valve lapping tool and compound locally. I think I am ready to get stuck into this tomorrow!

Thanks again,

Bevan

[WH nut 553]

(Gotta be careful 'round here, people will have you tearing everything apart just cause its 40 years old!)

Its not the age, its the condition. Sure its going to run, but you can see the oil getting past the rings

[yokomist 0]

Alright, She's all back together and ready to be fired up.

My only concern is the head bolts. I borrowed a torque wrench and I tightened the bolts in sequence but they dont seem to be very tight at 25 - 30 ft lbs.

I would like to tighten them more.... perhaps the wrench is wrong?

Any thoughts? do they usually tighten up kinda soft?

Thanks

Bevan

[yokomist 0]

I tried a different wrench at they tightened better. It runs nicely!

Unfortunately the generator belt disintegrated quickly, does anyone know the correct size?

Only issue is my freshly rebuild transmission wont go into 3rd

Thats life!

Thanks for all the help

Bevan

[Anglo Traction 759]

Alright, She's all back together and ready to be fired up.

My only concern is the head bolts. I borrowed a torque wrench and I tightened the bolts in sequence but they dont seem to be very tight at 25 - 30 ft lbs.

I would like to tighten them more.... perhaps the wrench is wrong?

Any thoughts? do they usually tighten up kinda soft?

Thanks

Bevan

Hi Bevan , I did mine to 28 ft lbs, as I used the original bolts with no problems. Don't forget the New Gasket partially compresses, and it's only a soft Alloy Head.

As for not getting 3rd, have you gently moved the Tractor fwd while selecting it, may just need to line the splines up ?.

Regards

[WH nut 553]

And dont forget to retorque after you run it a bit

[WH nut 553]

Dont forget to retorque after you run it a bit

[stevasaurus 22,229]

Hey Bevan...you have been busy. All sound good except the 3rd gear issue. If you used a lot of grease in that hole, it may be stopping you from moving it that far.?? :)

[yokomist 0]

Hey Steve, Welcome back! I hope you had a nice time away.

Yeah I am not too sure what the deal is with 3rd. The lever goes all the way into place and it starts to move forward but then grinds and pops out of gear.

Maybe I got one of the cogs in upside down?

Oh well, its just going to be used for plowing etc anyway, so the slower gears are what I need.

Bevan

[stevasaurus 22,229]

No...nothing upside down. The ONLY gear you have to make sure of is the reverse idler...the bevel has to be up when you put it back together. You will have trouble going into reverse if that is upside down. The rest of the stuff only fits one way or does not make any difference...except the nuts on the differential have to also be up.

Can you hold the shifter so it will not pop out? Did you replace the 2 ball bearings in the detent shaft? Does it ever pop out of 2nd? Did you grease the ends of the fork shafts? (I would have only greased the bearings and those shafts)

I seem to remember a thread or two talking about transmissions that pop out of 3rd gear. My 857 will do that under load, but OK with no load. I want to say...if that happens...it is usually 3rd gear.

I would not tear it back apart at this point if all else is good. I would drive it in all gears a lot to kind of break it in and see if it gets better. You could have some grease in those shafts (if you did that) that is keeping the shaft from seating all the way in on that end. By running the tractor for some period of time, you will create some heat in the trans which may fix what you have going on. Unless you hear something that doesn't sound right, I would fill it up with gas and break that horse in. It would be good for the engine also. :)

[yokomist 0]

Yup I think you are onto something here. I think I did grease the fork shafts because thats the reason I had to rebuild initially (because the fork shafts had frozen in place) and I was afraid they would again. I wondered how the shafts would work because they seemed to have air trapped under the shafts that would make them bounce back out if pressed down on them. I guess the grease helped seal the air in there. It will go into gear but pops out when under load.

It never goes out of any of the other gears, I had the nuts up on the diff and the reverse idler was bevel up too.

I am not going to worry for now, once I get a seat on this bad boy I want to get some seat time in. I still need to fine tune the carb so it comes down to a nice idle and pops the flapper nicely

Do you know after how long running should I re-torque the head bolts?

Thanks Steve, Good to have you back!

Bevan