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Frozen Transmission


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#1 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:18 PM

Hello,

This is a carry on from my post in the general section of the forum.

I just purchased a 1966 1056 with a frozen transmission.

Here is what I do know after soaking the trans in Marvel and the flushing with Kerosene:

Gear shifter will move back and forth in neutral.
The forks are aligned but will not move when attempted with a screw driver.
The transmission held alot of water for quite some time, I would say more than a quart was in there.
The axel seals leak when there is a gallon of kerosene in the transmission.
The wheels move freely as they should.
The transmission pully will rotate when asked too.

So I am guessing i need a complete overhaul. Is the process for the 4 speed generally the same as the 8 speed? Is an overhaul kit sold with all the pieces I need (like with a carb kit) or do I need to get a shopping list together?

Thanks for the help guys! :)

Bevan

#2 OFFLINE   Duff

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 10:21 PM

Bevan, we've got a member here, CharliesD250, who I think is very well versed in rebuilding the four speed trannies. Give him a day or two to spot this post, then PM him if he hasn't seen it. I'm pretty sure he can walk you through the process. There are others here who are excellent at trannies as well, so someone should be along to help you.

Duff :)
Livin' life large in West Lebanon, NH! Two 312-8's, two 310-8's, a "mystery build" just beginning, and always looking.....

#3 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for the reply Duff, hopefully someone might have a couple of pointers for me.

Just to update I have removed the trans from the tractor and scraped off about 3 hours worth of grease and dirt and crap off the case. I was happy that the hubs came off without too much trouble, but the hitch pin was another story. I tried everything I could and ended up with the sawzall method, then as luck would have it the pin still wouldnt budge. I had to drill it out (breaking two drill bits in the process) and the pound out the rest with a sledge hammer!!

Right now I am pondering opening the case. Perhaps I will do some reading tonight as I'm still not sure what I am looking for once I get the case open. Can anyone tell me what needs to be checked inside?

Also all the hammering and drilling and sawzalling freed up first and second gear in the process lol.

Thanks,

Bevan

#4 OFFLINE   clintonnut

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 06:26 PM

Go ahead and take it apart. Do yourself a favor and look at stevasaurus's post about the rebuild. Many pics.

If bearings need replaced talk to Duff. He has the list. As for seals you need 3 CR 9815 seals and one CR 7410 seal.

Outer axle bearings are B-1616 and I forget the rest off the top of my head.

Charlie

RJ35, RJ58, 953 PULLER, 1277

Charlie from SE Pennsylvania. Clinton Engines parts/restorations http://clintonengines.us/Home.html

SUNY Maritime Class of 2017!


#5 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 11:39 AM

Bevan...be not afraid...plenty of help here. You should have the #5053 4 speed trans on your tractor. It is basically the same as the #5025 trans in my thread. The pictures I put in that post are just like yours. You want to take off the larger half of the trans when you separate it...the gears should stay in the smaller half. Not a big deal if you did it the other way. I am hoping that most of your bearings are OK, a couple of them are not cheap. Pull it apart and take some pics and let's see what you got.

If you PM me your E-Mail address, I can send you a copy of the Transmission Manual. :)

If it is too bad...Charlie was rebuilding them for about $250 plus the old one...not sure if he is still doing that, but he may have a replacement.
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#6 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for the replies gents!

I have taken all the bolts out joining the case and I am having trouble splitting the case. Whats the best way to do this without causing any damage?

I have just spent the morning rebuilding the carb and driving all over town to find the rebuilt kit. During the re-assembly I snapped the long needle... :) So thats going on the back burner for now lol

I have read through your two posts on the trans Steve and they were really helpful, thank for that.

Thanks guys,

Bevan

#7 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:49 PM

use a flat chisel and a hammer, or a good scrapper, a fine blade screw driver may work also...shouldn't be to hard to separate. Do you want a copy of the manual???
.
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#8 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:52 PM

Thanks Steve, I will try that out.

I already have a copy of the manual, I am not sure where it came from but I saved it a while back.

Thanks again, hopefully I will have some photos for your skilled eyes shortly!

Bevan

#9 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:55 PM

My skilled eyes are gone with a few other things. glad to help...keep me posted.
:)
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#10 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:27 PM

Well she's certainly a mess alright!

Here are some photos:
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Posted Image
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Posted Image


Whats the best way to get it cleaned up? I guess some sort of degreaser?

From a quick glance I dont see any major damage but its hard to see through the muck. I wonder what it would have looked like If I hadnt run marvel and then kero through before hand!!

Bevan

#11 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:56 PM

It really looks alright. Do you have access to a gunk tank...something that runs solvent in a basin...Safety Kleen.?? That would be great for cleaning the bearings out. Other then that...buy a gallon of mineral spirits (not expensive)...put some in some kind of basin and start brushing...a stiff paint brush will work. A wire wheel will clean the parts after they are degreased. Well have to see about the bearings after you have it cleaned. :USA: :wh: :)

I don't see any needle bearings floating around and the ball bearings look OK at this point...they are the expensive ones. Maybe get away with a good cleaning. :) :omg: You can get the gasket for the trans halves at Toro for about $5.00

Where are you at if you don't mind my asking???

I think you will agree, that no amount of kerosene and running would clean this out. :)
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#12 OFFLINE   B-8074

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 02:23 PM

SOmething else that works wonders is Simple Green. I use it in my heated parts washer but if you have a big plastic tub that would work to. 5 to 1 is how I use it 1 gallon green, 5 gallons water and let soak. It also makes the garage smell good to,and leaves your hands nice and clean. :)

#13 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 02:58 PM

I just got back from the store, picked up some mineral spirits. I was looking at simple green and some other degreasers too... Maybe once I run out of minreal spirits I can try the simple green.

Steve I am located in Lakeland Florida. I am far away from most the wheel horse action... I must say that Jerry (jpmcleod) lives quite close to me, hopefully I can get together with him one of these days.

Well I am going to get scrubbing, I guess its going to be a long night!

Thanks for the help guys!

Bevan

#14 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 03:44 PM

Ok, time for the next update!

I havent been able to remove much because of my frozen shifter fork. Looking at the picture below it is the one on the bottom. Is this a candidate for pb blaster? I have tried some gentle love taps but its not want ting to move at all. :)

Posted Image

In this photo, its the one on the left:
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and the side view:

Posted Image

And on a side note, these tires are really cool, its a shame they are in such bad shape!

Posted Image

Thanks!

Bevan

#15 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 04:32 PM

Just wanted to add that I got the fork to move, just didnt want to waste anybody's time writing me a reply :)

#16 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:06 PM

Yes...at this point, you want to be gentile. Soak the parts and tap them once in a while. You have some heavy rust there. It is worth it to degrease and work loose and wire brush. We have parts to replace bad ones, but knowing you are in the states makes it a little easier. :)

Did you read about those 2 forks and the 2 quarter inch balls and spring and shaft piece that are between those two forks??? Could be what is holding you up. There is a hole on the outside of the trans that is in line with those balls and spring. If you have lifted out one of those forks, those pieces could be anywhere, but they are probably still kind of in place because of all the goop. the balls are 1/4 inch and ACE hardware has them...try not to lose the spring and piece that goes inside of it though. :USA:
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#17 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:14 PM

Is there any special way to clean out the bearings? It seems like they are a little gritty.

all I have left in the case now to remove are the fork things. How do i remove the balls and spring that holds them in place?

Also Steve, what sort of lube did you use when you re-assembled?

And yep Im here in the states, I am like sorekiwi... well I'm not as smart as Mike! but we are both kiwi imports :)

Bevan

#18 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:15 PM

Thanks Steve - we were typing at the same time lol

#19 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:21 PM

Also, at this point, don't be afraid to take apart the differential and the axle assembly. I've got some good pics of those pieces, and that needs to be cleaned out also. :)
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#20 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:27 PM

Yes Sir I have the diff all pulled apart and cleaned up a bit already, rounded off one of the nuts getting the diff apart, hopefully I can find a new nut for that!

So in the manual it shows jamming something into the hole from the outside of the case to release the balls and spring... and idea on that proceedure?

Thanks!

#21 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:29 PM

If you do not have access to a "safety Kleen gunk tank" I would use a mustard or catsup bottle full of your favorite degreaser. (mineral spirits). squirt and roll the bearings with little finger, squirt again. Hopefully, no rust...did not look like it. If you get it clean, I put some red bearing grease in the bearing. That will keep it clean and free of rust while you continue. In the end you will add 90 wt oil to fill the trans. The red grease can stay and will work with the oil.
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#22 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:34 PM

Just pull the forks out...I doubt you will lose the parts, but a pencil magnet to get the parts out of the track could be beneficial When you look at the forks, you will see a couple of grooves...these are what the balls fit into and hold the shifter in place. The trick is putting them back in...I have a trick when we get there. That is what the manual is talking about.
:) .

the nut for the differential is just a hex nut with the plastic inside.

An allen wrench of the right size will help to poke the spring and piece inside the spring and the 2 balls out. :USA:
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#23 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:49 PM

How are we doing Bevan?? sounds like you are hanging in there. I am home all day tomorrow if you are off also and having at it. :)
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois

#24 OFFLINE   yokomist

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:07 PM

I will be here tomorrow, working away on the tranny, the worst part is going to be ordering the seals and having to wait for them :wh: I still haven't ordered as I wasn't sure what else I might need.

The good news is that I have freed up the two big ball bearings :)

The needle bearings arn't so easy to free up.

I am about to get serious trying to pull out the forks, the seems like they are in there pretty good though, I will try some leverage.

I will get some photos up in the morning to update the progress.

:USA:


Bevan

#25 OFFLINE   stevasaurus

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:24 PM

Don't be afraid to use a little pressure to release those forks. Soaking them a little more wouldn't hurt. You should be able to buy the seals at a good auto parts store...NAPA any bearings can be bought online and had in a few days. :USA: I'll be on in the mourning.
:wh: :)
702, 857, 1972 Raider 10, 1976 B-100
Elgin, Illinois




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