8 speed compatibilty

[kpinnc 10,683]

Anybody else here ever swap parts between trannies? I see alot of questions about it in some of the other forums. I've certainly changed enough parts around with no problems. Anyone else?

I've swapped a 10-pinion diff out to an 8-pinion.

I've used different axles from all sorts of WH trannies.

I think all of the gears from a 300 series (1 inch axle, 4 pinion) tranny are interchangable with a 400 series (1 and 1/8th axles, 8 pinion), except the diff assy itself. Anyone ever done any of this?

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

I haven't had to change out the transaxle on any of my machines, but I know that they will all interchange. I have been interested in Bill's comment about the 4 pinion transaxle being equipped for 8 pinions, just need to add the gears. I am pretty certain my 414-8 has a 4-pinion axle and because I use it for plowing I would like to beef it up a little. I would really like the 10 pinion for the traction though....

[Curmudgeon 28]

I've swapped all kinds of parts between transmissions. Gears, shift forks, entire differential assemblies, both 10 pinion and differing 8 pinions, axles, etc.

What I really want to do is have the cases on a 4-speed milled to accept the 1 1/8" axles of the 8 speeds. What I've heard is the 4-speeds are stronger than the 8's as the high/low hasn't been crammed in there, reducing the size of some of the gears.

I've got enough 4-speeds laying around, but the only spare differential with 1 1/8" axles is, well, the axles are so worn in the bearing area they aren't 1 1/8" anymore. Still, it would be good enough to compare the differential bull gear to make sure it's compatible. Supposedly it is, but as of yet, I haven't checked it out.

Dale

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Interesting information here. I'm not sure if I want to mess with the 8-speed in my 314, but if I needed to get into it, maybe then......

[Curmudgeon 28]

In case you do ever decide to "mess" around the transmissions, they are a lot easier to work on than you think. You can go cold turkey, and just tear in like I did the first few times, you'll get it down. But it's much easier to get the Manual Transmission repair manual. Part Number: 492-4004 About ten bucks if you buy it, I think you can download it for free from Toro.

Dale

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

I tore into a 4 speed cast iron Peerless transmission that was in a JD 210 a couple of months ago. The axle housing and axle were busted and I replaced the differential assembly, seals and bearings in it. It wasn't no big deal, so with a manual I probably could tear into the 8-speed. But I'm from the school that if it isn't broke, why fix it. But if you need the extra strength then it would be worth while to do so.

[CasualObserver 3,406]

I downloaded the manual before I tore into my first 4 speed. The pictures and step by step in the manual is invaluable!! I also took actual pictures myself step by step to refer to when it came to reassembly It helped alot. One thing I would have to warn you about that I don't remember being in the manual is how fast the stupid little steel shot balls and spring in the middle of the shifter fork setup can shoot right past you!! Be careful! :D

[Curmudgeon 28]

I downloaded the manual before I tore into my first 4 speed. The pictures and step by step in the manual is invaluable!! I also took actual pictures myself step by step to refer to when it came to reassembly It helped alot. One thing I would have to warn you about that I don't remember being in the manual is how fast the stupid little steel shot balls and spring in the middle of the shifter fork setup can shoot right past you!! Be careful!

It also doesn't state how many times you'll drop the darn things down into the case, below the gears before you finally get them to stay put. ( a bitty dab of grease helps) So it's useful to have a nice little magnet wand to retrieve them.

Dale

[kpinnc 10,683]

Well, I am building up a little tractor (867) that was inspired by Thirdroc's "Tall Girl". I'm not gonna put the 26x12x12 tires on it, but I do have a dually wheel kit I'm considering using. I had an 8 speed with the 10 pinion diff that was busted, so I changed it out to an 8 pinion, and I just mounted a 14 hp twin engine on it. Hopefully, it'll measure an 8 or 9 on the grunt meter...

I never thought about using 1 and 1/8th axles and diff on a 4 speed though. What a concept!

I've opened two 300 series 8 speeds looking for the diffs with 1 inch axles and 4 extra holes for adding 4 pinions, but I've never found one like it. My 310-8 certainly didn't have it.

I've been told never to use the 10 pinion diff in ANYTHING that I'd be pulling any load with, and I mean even a plow! The posi-trac is nice, but they tend to shatter under load.

[Curmudgeon 28]

I never thought about using 1 and 1/8th axles and diff on a 4 speed though. What a concept!

I've opened two 300 series 8 speeds looking for the diffs with 1 inch axles and 4 extra holes for adding 4 pinions, but I've never found one like it. My 310-8 certainly didn't have it.

Did all 300 series come with 1" axles? I'm trying to get this straight in another forum. 4 pinion, 8 pinion, 1" axles, 1 1/8" axles, 4 speed and 8. I've seen a lot of generalizations about which are combined with which. Like, all high lows have 1 1/8" axles. I know that's not true. Some high/lows had 1" axles.

But what about this statement that I read, "All 'Horse rears with Hi-Lo and 1 1/8 axles are 8 pinion." That's not true because some are 10 pinion, but I was thinking the 300 series had 1 1/8" axles, but were 4 pinion. If I'm wrong on that, I'll go and correct myself.

Dale

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

I am pretty sure that the 1 1/8" axle's are on the C-Series, 400 and 500 series. Now for the number of pinions. I am certain that my 414 has a 4 pinion rear. I am also certain my 416 has an 8 pinion rear. What does all this mean? Not a clue, I'm just as confused as anyone else about this, but I know what I have... :D

[kpinnc 10,683]

Nylyon, your 414 has 4 pinions? Wow, I would've thought it was eight.

I used to think the 300 series were all 1 inch, and the 400/500 series, along with all the C series and a few B series were 1 and 1/8th. But, I was told that a 315-8 had 1 and 1/8th axles per the owner.

The Toro site has drawings with multiple diffs and axles on some of the 8 speeds. I guess they just used whatever they had the most of when it came time to assemble them. I'm certainly confused now...

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

I am certain that my 414 has a 4 pinion rear.

Well, let me clarify.... I never opened the case, my information comes from the Toro MPV as well as a parts manual for my 414-8. Both show a quantity of 4 for the pinions.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

According to the parts manual, my 314-8 has the 8 pinion, so I'm assuming that's correct.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

I would think so, usually the parts manuals are accurate. You probably have the 1" axle with the 8-pinion.

[Lane Ranger 10,472]

Jschal et al: Saturday the 20th of September, My brother, Dad and I just tore apart a 5047 transmission from a 1054 and rebuild using some gears from another one we had and added some new parts ordered from toro. My father has two 1054's and two B-80's and a lot more older parts than I even knew until this weekend.

We came up with some good mechanical information on the rebuild. I had purchhased new replacement spring (toro # 106030), pin and and detent balls as we wanted to make sure the shifting would be good. We had another older transmission (and some loose older parts from anoterh one he had) which was my fathers orginal from 1964 that had never been removed or worked on. Most gears were very worn and third was just about shot.

We realized after one placement of the balls, new spring and pin that that shifting forks would need a three foot crow bar on them to move the shift rails. The shifting rails would hardy move and we knew the pin, spring and balls were holding it too thight.

We took it apart again (we actually did not have the case back together again) and placed the old spring against the new spring on a steel table and came up with a figure of an1/8 of an inch that needed to be removed from the new shift pin (5614 from toro) in order to go back in the transmission with the old shift rails. We also compared another shift rail we had that showed about 1/16 more moon-shaped depth on it. So my father said an 1/8 removed ought to do it and he ground it off (making another one for future use if necessary).

I guess the newer shift rails were indented deeper thus the need for a longer spring and longer steel shift pin to place in the spring between the steel detent balls. We decided to use the old spring we still had (never did find an old shift pin-but we did find three or four old balls in the transmission case we were working on).

Two reasons I am writing this. First, my mother came up with the suggestion on how we cold best install the balls and spring on our next rebuild. Early Sunday morning the 21st, we got up and went to work using a bamboo chopstick to hold the spring, shift pin and balls in place with the 2nd gear shift rail placed in the shaft.

This worked perfectly and held everything in place until the second shift rail could be installed in place. I called this China meets USA transaxle rebuilding.

My second reason is that we had the 56 page transmission repair manual and it helped a lot on re-reading. We have done before on older tractors but the trick of shifting gears onece the balls and shift rails are in place is how you get your gears back in order to reassble the two sides of the case.

Although we messed around with this four about five or six hours on Saturday we had the thing rebuilt in one hour Sunday am and that was with the hubs, brake and drive gear back on!

Now we have one good spare for the two 1054's!

[unionman45 0]

how do you tell what tranny you have without pulling it apart ans what years did they make the 1.1/8 shaft i need the 1.1/8 shafts for a set of d200 hubs

[kpinnc 10,683]

how do you tell what tranny you have without pulling it apart ans what years did they make the 1.1/8 shaft i need the 1.1/8 shafts for a set of d200 hubs

ALL D (160/180/200) series tractors had the 1 and 1/8th axles, but they are much longer than standard Unidrive axles.

In other words, if you're looking for axles for a D (not sure on the D250), you'll have to get them from another D series. No other models had axles that long.

If you're just looking for "standard" length 1 and 1/8th axles (there are several different ones), then you'll need the Mechanical Transmission Repair manual, which has a chart with which type transmissions were used on each tractor. There are probably more than this, but I know you'll be looking for a 5091 or 103907 mechanical transmissions at least. Many hydrostatics also used these axles, but I don't remember those model numbers.

Kevin

[Rideawaysenior 25]

Karl,

If your 414 has the 4 pinion you have one rare bird there. I just did a rebuild on mine. Not certain of the exact year but mine is a pre Magnum series kohler and I've got the 8 pinion. Also the sales literature from what I can see also says it's the 8 pinion. I've seen Toro MPV list some incorrect info and I'll bet they snaffoed here again.

Also, your idea with the 10 pinion isn't bad but heed the warnings you are given. What weakens the 10 pinion is the fact that there is less substance to the bull gear. There is alot of meat removed to accomodate the extra pinions creating some weak points. I've got a couple 10 pinion units that I use for plowing and they do just fine. I till and also pull a land plow with them. I may be just one of the lucky ones. I do know from experience that with pulling in competition at about 4,000 lbs of stone boat weight, they tend to self destruct. The 8 pinion on the other hand is rediculously strong.

Jack