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T-Mo

Car battery in a C141

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My JD 210 (and all JD 200 series) has a car battery in it. It came from the factory with one. I wonder if a small car battery would fit in my C141. I don't know if there is enough room, but I think I read somewhere there is a small car battery that might fit into these little tractors. Anyone here ever heard this, tried this or seen one? And if so, what sizes in car batteries out there that would fit?

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The "smaller" tractors did use some automobile-sized batteries, but that was 40-some years ago. My 1966 1056 has a battery just like the one that was in my 1990 Ford Ranger, and my 1968 Raider 12 has a group 22NF battery. I believe the '74 to '77 C-Series tractors actually call for a bigger battery than a small lawn & garden style, but most people prefer to use the cheaper smaller ones because of the price.

In 1978, when the batteries got moved from a "box" on the frame to the top of the hoodstand, the option of a larger battery went away for good. Anything taller would hit the hood, and the width is also limited in that area.

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Yes, there is not much room in the battery compartment. I'll have to measure to see how much room there is and what the maximum height can be with the hood closed. Sure would be nice if I can find a battery with more umph than those little l&g batteries have. The 22F and the 22NF's looks to be the smallest and still have some power to them. Hopefully that chart I've linked to is accurate so I can measure to see what space I do have.

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Terry,

Be sure to post the model and part number you come up with. I have a C-160 with an electric lift. Could also use the additional umph to decrease the load on the charging circuit.

Dan G

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Dan,

Your electric lift will draw the same amount of power from the electric system , no matter how big the battery is. The alternator still has to work the same amount to replace it.

The only advantage to having a battery with more plates (amp-hour capacity) would be if you use the electric lift without the engine running (and to help turn the engine over faster -- for a longer period of time.)

I'm going to go out and compare my tractors. (battery box sizes) If a 22NF fits in my '68 Raider 12, it should also fit an older C - series. :thumbs:

The 22NF was $56.00, but should outlast 3 or 4 of the L&G batteries. (@ $22 each)

When you do the math, it doesn't look nearly as expensive. :thumbs:

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OK.... here's some of the results from my walk with the tape measure....

The 1056 and 1067 both have the 6 3/4" wide X 8 1/2" long battery tray with the short / wide car-type battery. (I forget the group number :thumbs: )

The 1968 Raider 12 and the 1977 C-120 have a 5 1/4" wide X 8 1/2" long tray. The battery in the Raider 12 is NAPA #5022NF and measures 5 1/4" wide X 8 1/2" long X 9" high. (to the top of the posts)

The 1975 B-80 4 speed has a 5" wide X 7 1/2" long battery tray with a snug-fitting standard L&G battery.

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If you were heavily using something, maybe a Johnny bucket with 2 electric actuators, wouldnt a larger battery with more reserve also keep up longer? The 15amp? charging system on the tractor will keep up for so long then after that the larger battery would handle the load longer before getting real low. I think thats part of the reason my brothers run two batteries in snow plow trucks. The charging system would work just as hard just maybe not as soon? Then again Im just guessing. :thumbs::thumbs:

Nick

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The larger battery would have more cranking power because of the larger size. (more plates) The alternator would be the source of the power unless the battery drops below the pre-set voltage of the regulator and/or the amperage demand increases above the 15 amp output of the regulator, at which time the battery would supply the additional power. (amperes)

These tractors are wired that way to enable a constant regulated voltage to the ignition system. (and accessories) The alternator is always producing power as long as the engine is running. That's why Kohler specifies "do not run with battery disconnected or damage will result" -- there's no place for the power to be stored, so it builds up as "heat energy" and burns out the stator or rectifier/regulator.

The newer tractors with the 3 amp non-regulated "battery maintainer" charging systems are a totally different principal. If you'd install an electric lift on one of those tractors, it would have to draw more of the power from the battery because the alternator couldn't "keep up" to the demand as good.

I honestly don't know what the maximum amperage draw is on an electric actuator motor for the electric lift, but since it's not constantly in operation, any of the Kohler alternators (Tecumseh and Onan too - for that matter) should not have a problem supplying power for them.

Having the headlights on while operating the electric lift would change all of this.... but that's a whole 'nother big discussion. :D

And just for a comparison -- the snowplow lift motor on the truck is like running the starter. The electric lift actuator is like a power window motor. The big difference is between the 15 amp alternator on the tractor and probably at least a 95 amp alternator on the truck. (you know all this stuff already though. :thumbs: )

I don't know if I made things better -- or worse. :thumbs: I did get a lot more typing practice - if nothing else. :P

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Lot of good information Terry. And dont assume I know too much now. :D Ive got one brother that was a car/heavy diesel mechanic for 20+ years and the other has been one at a Wheel Horse dealer for maybe 15 years.. but it aint rubbed off on me yet. :thumbs:

Im not sure about the high end actuators but I should have thought that the duty cycle might limit any need for more power. I know one at surplus center was listed at only 3 minutes out of 20 and some less than that. Im not sure what kind of load two actautors used at the same time would have. :thumbs:

Nick

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Yes, TT, lots of good info.

I measured the battery compartment on my C and it's close to the C-120 you have. About 8 1/2 inches long and I could go as wide as about 6 1/2 inches and about 9 inches to the hood. It looks from the that size chart a 21 might fit. It would be too tight it appears for any 22 series, except maybe the 22NF.

I wonder if that 5022NF is Napa's part number for the 22NF? :thumbs:

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I wonder if that 5022NF is Napa's part number for the 22NF? :thumbs:

It is, Terry.

I got the battery from NAPA about 2 years ago and that # is on the sticker right beside the NAPA name.

It would just be a 22NF as far as the group number.

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