mrfixit82852 3 #1 Posted March 14, 2010 Looking for a photo of the bottom of the engine block for this engine, Engine-16HP-Kohler M-16-S Spec PS-711523 This is a 13 fin engine block. Was told it was used on the Toro 416-804 and 803 I am looking to see if it has the 8 mounting holes in it to mount to both style oil pans, flange and narrow base. Kohler web site does not show the bottom of the block in the parts diagram. any photos of the bottom of the block that you may have would be appreciated You can email them to me directly at (mrfixit82852@aol.com) Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #2 Posted March 14, 2010 Joe..... That would definitely be a 1987/88 WH 416-8 engine. I have yet to see a 10-16hp Magnum single with anything other than the "big" (2 quart) oil pan. Although I don't have a picture, I do know that the pan rail on the 416-8 WH engine is not drilled for the smaller sump. (JD/CC/Jake/Ford style) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #3 Posted March 14, 2010 Joe..... That would definitely be a 1987/88 WH 416-8 engine. I have yet to see a 10-16hp Magnum single with anything other than the "big" (2 quart) oil pan. Although I don't have a picture, I do know that the pan rail on the 416-8 WH engine is not drilled for the smaller sump. (JD/CC/Jake/Ford style) Terry this is why I was hoping to get a photo of the engine. Reason is I seen a engine block on ebay, that said it was from a Wheel horse, and that block had 8 mounting holes. But the seller did not have the spec numbers from the engine. Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #4 Posted March 14, 2010 I looked at the ones on eBay and saw what I now remember as being the problem.... The "ends" of the pan rail (starter side and carb side) are recessed or beveled where the smaller pan would seal. The big pan seals on the "ears" and this is not a problem. I knew there was a reason! I think the "eared" blocks are all like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #5 Posted March 14, 2010 I looked at the ones on eBay and saw what I now remember as being the problem.... The "ends" of the pan rail (starter side and carb side) are recessed or beveled where the smaller pan would seal. The big pan seals on the "ears" and this is not a problem. I knew there was a reason! I think the "eared" blocks are all like this. Terry Thanks for the photo. What it is I have a complete engine in a running tractor. but I want to use it in a different brand tractor that needs the narrow mount. I am hoping it will work. but hate to pull the engine out of that tractor and rip it apart if it won't work. so I guess the more photos I get of this engine block will help me from having to tear it apart Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #6 Posted March 14, 2010 I looked at the ones on eBay and saw what I now remember as being the problem.... The "ends" of the pan rail (starter side and carb side) are recessed or beveled where the smaller pan would seal. The big pan seals on the "ears" and this is not a problem. I knew there was a reason! I think the "eared" blocks are all like this. Terry Thanks for the photo. What it is I have a complete engine in a running tractor. but I want to use it in a different brand tractor that needs the narrow mount. I am hoping it will work. but hate to pull the engine out of that tractor and rip it apart if it won't work. so I guess the more photos I get of this engine block will help me from having to tear it apart Thanks Joe Terry I just went out back and looked at the engine I have. It does have the raises in the casting, but it does not have the plugs in it. So now I have to wonder if the bottom of the block has those recesses in it. One thing I might be able to do is make a 1/4 inch plate that bolts to the flange and will allow me to bolt the plate to the small narrow oil pan. I have to wonder if Kohler made and adaptor plate to do this Once again Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #7 Posted March 14, 2010 I remember getting into a mess like this with a JD 212 many years ago. I bought a K301 block that ended up being out of either a Simplicity or an Ariens and had to fill those areas in to get the JD pan to seal. I just can't remember how I did it. An adapter plate would work great and is probably the best answer. I am not aware of anything like that ever being offered by Kohler though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #8 Posted March 14, 2010 I remember getting into a mess like this with a JD 212 many years ago. I bought a K301 block that ended up being out of either a Simplicity or an Ariens and had to fill those areas in to get the JD pan to seal. I just can't remember how I did it. An adapter plate would work great and is probably the best answer. I am not aware of anything like that ever being offered by Kohler though. Terry I will be calling Kohler tech support tomorrow for sure. I know my block does not have the plugs in it like in the photo you posted. I am hoping the bottom of the block does not have the recesses. If it does, i will either have to make an adaptor plate, or weld them up. Maybe I will get lucky and not have to pull the engine apart just to see if it does. was that a Magnum block photo or the K series engine. Just curious, there might be a difference between both style blocks Thanks for your help Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #9 Posted March 14, 2010 was that a Magnum block photo or the K series engine. Just curious, there might be a difference between both style blocks Now that I realized it has points and went back to look at the auction, it is actually a K-321 that is incorrectly listed (on eBay) as a Magnum. eBay item #120493957873 is supposed to be a true M16 magnum and it has a clear picture of the pan rail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #10 Posted March 14, 2010 was that a Magnum block photo or the K series engine. Just curious, there might be a difference between both style blocks Now that I realized it has points and went back to look at the auction, it is actually a K-321 that is incorrectly listed (on eBay) as a Magnum. eBay item #120493957873 is supposed to be a true M16 magnum and it has a clear picture of the pan rail. Terry I checked out that item on ebay. That one does have the block drilled out and tapped for pipe plugs near the bottom. My block does not have the pipe plugs in it. I am wondering if someone switched the sheet metal on the engine over the years. Reason why I am thinking this is because the block on ebay has 12 fins, mine has 13 thanks for all your help Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #11 Posted March 14, 2010 I am wondering if someone switched the sheet metal on the engine over the years. Reason why I am thinking this is because the block on ebay has 12 fins, mine has 13 Yours isn't drilled for points, is it, Joe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #12 Posted March 14, 2010 I am wondering if someone switched the sheet metal on the engine over the years. Reason why I am thinking this is because the block on ebay has 12 fins, mine has 13 Yours isn't drilled for points, is it, Joe? Terry No there are no holes drilled for points. No holes drilled in the bottom of the block on either flange either. It has the humps on the flange, but no holes drilled for plugs. I am hoping Kohler can shed some light on this. I really hate pulling the engine out and then find it has those recesses. but either way, I am going to have to make it work. I really do appreciate your help Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,027 #13 Posted March 14, 2010 This is a Magnum 12hp that I wanted to put on a C-81 tractor using the cradle mount. I got the small oil pan from a K301 from a wheel horse. I had to fill in the openings in the block flange to make it work. JB Weld and a piece of tape for a form worked fine Might use aluminum flashing next time for a form..... Have had no leaks from that in 2 years.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #14 Posted March 14, 2010 This is a Magnum 12hp that I wanted to put on a C-81 tractor using the cradle mount. I got the small oil pan from a K301 from a wheel horse. I had to fill in the openings in the block flange to make it work. JB Weld and a piece of tape for a form worked fine Might use aluminum flashing next time for a form..... Have had no leaks from that in 2 years.... Paul thanks for the tip about JB Weld, sure would make it easier then welding or making a plate Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #15 Posted March 15, 2010 Well talked with the Kohler Tech today. Was no help at all. Guess I will be pulling this engine out of the tractor and taking the oil pan off to see what mounting holes the engine does have and if there are recesses in the bottom of the block thanks to those who helped out Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,127 #16 Posted March 15, 2010 Good luck, Joe! It was nice "seeing" you again. B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #17 Posted May 22, 2010 This is a Magnum 12hp that I wanted to put on a C-81 tractor using the cradle mount. I got the small oil pan from a K301 from a wheel horse. I had to fill in the openings in the block flange to make it work. JB Weld and a piece of tape for a form worked fine Might use aluminum flashing next time for a form..... Have had no leaks from that in 2 years.... I have an engine now. It has the four holes drilled in the bottom, they just need to be tapped. But the block does have the recesses in it. What did you use to clean the block to prepare it to except the JB-Weld. Did you just clean it with a cleaner that removes oil, or did you use a acid to clean the cast iron? Also did you use the two tubes of JB-Weld, or the stick that you roll it in your hands to mix it. Any and all info that you did would be appreciated. Thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,027 #18 Posted May 23, 2010 I just used brake clean (several times). I used the 2 tube JB weld. Sanded after the first application with a flat sanding bock. Revealed a slight void (low spot on one side so an additional application was required. Incidently I use waxed paper on the inside of my form to avoid the JB Bonding to the form..Cellophane or car wax would probably work equally well. Hope it works as well for you as for me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #19 Posted May 23, 2010 I just used brake clean (several times). I used the 2 tube JB weld. Sanded after the first application with a flat sanding bock. Revealed a slight void (low spot on one side so an additional application was required. Incidently I use waxed paper on the inside of my form to avoid the JB Bonding to the form..Cellophane or car wax would probably work equally well. Hope it works as well for you as for me... Paul Thanks for the info Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrfixit82852 3 #20 Posted October 2, 2014 I just used brake clean (several times). I used the 2 tube JB weld. Sanded after the first application with a flat sanding bock. Revealed a slight void (low spot on one side so an additional application was required. Incidently I use waxed paper on the inside of my form to avoid the JB Bonding to the form..Cellophane or car wax would probably work equally well. Hope it works as well for you as for me... I never realized I did not post the results to this thread. Been a long time but I did use the JB weld to fill the recesses and it has been running for years with no leaks. Just figure I would post a reply, better late then never. I guess those that know me know I own and moderate 40 yahoo groups and 5 other forums so time is limited. I helped a friend tonight and posted the results on the forum. And happen to start looking at old message threads I posted or replied to. If I did not reply to someone it was and oversite and I'm sorry that happened. Thanks for any help I recieved and hopefully any I gave helped others. Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites