312-8 4x4

[kpinnc 10,683]

Terry,

You'd need fenders and mudflaps up front!

Resourceful thinking though...

Kevin

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

I was thinking more like a helmet with a face shield! (and maybe some of that motorcross body armor! )

[Nick 13]

Terry,

I was just messing with you and Ian but I guess it might work. At a national Vintage garden tractor show a few years ago I saw a tractor that had been made into a 4x4 but didnt keep pictures of it. From what I can remember he cut down some kind of smaller front drive axle for it. I cant remember how he got power to the drive shaft or even what brand tractor it was.

They dont worry about gearing but the mud racers just chain drive the driveshaft to the front axle without a transfer case.

Nick

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

I still like the looks of this -- even if it's not a Wheel Horse.

[kpinnc 10,683]

I still like the looks of this -- even if it's not a Wheel Horse.

Been trying to get pop to make his 100 that way for a couple months now...

but, he's stuck on the "original/factory" thing. I guess I can't blame him.

Kevin

[Rollerman 290]

I seen this turn up on the YT site a few days back.

http://www.tractorshed.com/cgi-bin/gallery...l&what=identify

Pic is not the best...but it looks like someone made a conversion on a Sears belt drive tractor?

Can't really tell though..it may be just an ugly tractor with ags in front. :thumbs:

[Stigian 1,234]

Morning all,

I had one of those "flash of inspiration" moments while trying to get to sleep last night.

See what you think.

If one of the back wheels spins there is still drive to the other 3.

If both back wheels spin then there is still drive to the front 2.

And if one front wheel spins, then there is still drive to both back wheels.

Not quite perfect, but better traction wise than 2 wheel drive with 1 wheel spinning

[Stigian 1,234]

Another thought here, must be having a good day

With an extra belt and pulleys all 4 wheels would have drive all of the time

Not much good for turning, but quite handy should i ever need the traction to pull a train

Fit a WH style clutch belt tensioner and you have a 4x4 diff lock

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

I'm liking this book. Just like a magazine, don't really need to read the articles, just look at the pictures and illustrations.

Interesting ideas, guys. I like the idea of coming off the pto clutch, that sounds pretty plausible.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

You guys had me thinking about this too. What about a Hybrid? Get a couple of good strong 12V motors and have a on-demand 4WD system. Maybe a couple of starter generators (might as well make electricity when you can). You can put in a couple of deep cycle batteries somewhere and have them charged by driving around. Then when you need quiet operation, or 4wd, just send some juice to the front. :thumbs:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,127]

Morning all,

I had one of those "flash of inspiration" moments while trying to get to sleep last night.

See what you think.

If one of the back wheels spins there is still drive to the other 3.

If both back wheels spin then there is still drive to the front 2.

And if one front wheel spins, then there is still drive to both back wheels.

Not quite perfect, but better traction wise than 2 wheel drive with 1 wheel spinning

I had actually thought about that same set-up too, Ian. It seemed like a lot of extra moving parts, and a lot of pieces underneath the tractor to get hung up on brush or in the mud and possibly get torn off when bogging!

The belt drive to the front still concerns me if it would get wet -- or worse yet -- a stick or ? would get caught in it and throw the belt off. You'll need LOTS of belt guards!

[CasualObserver 3,406]

Perhaps something along the lines of a skid plate? Could make it out of expanded steel so it can breathe/dry off in necessary.

[Stigian 1,234]

The drive belts do worry me a bit.

Theres no reason why the back two belts cant be swapped for chains, but i think a belt is need at the front so it can twist as the front axle tilts.

A few belt guards/skid pan 's would be a wise idea :thumbs:

[Kelly 1,028]

What about hyd. motors? narrow the axle to fit the motors out board on the spindles, no need for u-joints. mount a hyd pump to drive the motors, unless you have a hydro. you can change the direction by revesing flow I'm not sure about how to control speed but I'm sure there is a way. Maybe this idea is all wet, but it's all I've got right now.

One thing looking at some of the pics the u-joints need to be in line with the spindle so they pivot the same or will bind the u-joint. If you look at a 4x4 truck old soild axle type, the axle u-joints are in the middle of the spindle for that reason.

[Rollerman 290]

Ian any updates on the 312-8speed 4wd project?

Or still in the process with a lot of I wonder if this will work part of the build up?

looking forwardto the next "Ian how too" novel. :thumbs:

[whlpny 201]

I seen this set-up that Ian is contemplating on a C-series WheelHorse down at Brookeville In At the VGTCOA National Expo several years back. The front drive was made similarly then enclosed with aproximately .060 sheatmetal for that " big tractor front axle" look. It was driven the same from the rear to the front using a chain. The guy had made his own steering knuckles up front. It was kind of a crude looking tractor but it worked. Did anybody else see it or remember it? I'll try attaching a view of my front assist axle from the front in my 264. It has some heavy duty cast outer housings and steering knuckles.Not sure if it will work- but here it goes- looks like I dont have it down yet - sorry guys!

[Nick 13]

Maybe Ive got the wrong one but I saw one at that show Bob. I thought the one I had seen used a cut down front axle from a larger tractor or something. For some reason I even thought it was shaft driven. But thats a few years back and I cant find any pictures of it. I also didnt think it was a WH, maybe a bolens?

Looked for a picture of the 4x4 but only found this from the Findlay 2002 VGTCOA show.

Nick

[Stigian 1,234]

Not much has been happening on the 4x4 project

Im still doing the ing collecting parts kinda thing

As ever cash flow has stopped me buying all the parts in one hit, but bits are coming in

The drive shaft s you have seen before, but i thought id stick another photo of em up anyway

Another big thank you and up to Wes for spotting these lovely bits of shiny sliding, bendy jointed bits of steel

I thought it would be a bit of a waist to have a 4x4 with grass tires on the front

so a pair of 16x650-8 Ag's found their way to me in the post

These have now both been fitted (with lots of swearing and washing up liquid) to a couple of Westwood rear rims

I need to order some bearings and work out what size pulleys i need

then the plan is to pile it all in a heap on the floor and work out the fine details from there :D

[whlpny 201]

Thanks Nick - can always count on you for them pics- thought that one had long been lost! The guy who owned the 4x4 was a friend of Jerry Harris out of In.- do you know him? He kept telling me his buddy was building a bad lookin horse. Then I remember seeing it - it was a great idea but a hair on the crude side as far as craftsmanship. I specfically remember the castr/camber being way out of whack! Your right though- it did look like a cut down assembly.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Ian,

Nice front tires there. They definitely increase the looks and will help with traction once the project comes to fruition.

[Stigian 1,234]

Morning guys, i cant believe its been so long since ive updated you all on the progress (or lack of ) on the 4x4 project.

As you might have spotted elsewhere on this fine forum, plans have changed slightly with the 314-8 chassis being used for development purposes.

The chassis is stripped down and is sitting on a bench awaiting action, so at least something has been happening with project 4x4

A couple of questions for you chaps in the know

I was lying under the Countax the other day (as you do), having a look at the electric clutch for the cutting deck, thinking that two of them might come in handy for the drive system on project 4x4.

One for turning the drive to the front axle on and off, and one for the diff-lock

The question is do you think a couple of these electric clutch 's would be upto the job

The next and final (well for this update) question is, how do i work out what size pulleys i need to use to get the front wheels turning at the right speed in relation to the rears

Im using 23" tall tires on the back and 16" tall on the front.

If i bolt pulleys on both front and back wheels and run a belt between them, what size pulleys would i need

Sorry to ask such a ing sort of question, but i just cant get my head around the maths of it all

Once i know what size pulleys i need i can order them along with loads of bearings from the same place (saves on postage ) and finally get cracking on with the build

"At last", i hear you all cry :D

[Mith 2]

The electric clutches are strong enough for sure, but whenever they are engaged they are using power, and I dont think the 314 will provide enough juice to keep 2 clutches engaged.

You can get a mint for them on ebay (they are

[Curmudgeon 28]

Interesting thread. While I haven't read it before now, and even now not in it's entirety, I love the idea.

The math is the easy part!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[Stigian 1,234]

Cheers Jim, i thought you would be the man in the know about electric clutches

I wish i knew how much i could of got for the countax clutch before i sold it at the weekend Oh well, i will know for next time

Maybe a motorbike clutch would be an answer i have a couple of them kicking about so its worth a look to see if i can use them

Cheers as well for the pulley ratio help, i think ive got my head around it now

Id better head off down the shack at some point today and do a full list of pulley and bearings

Dale - much to my shame my maths has never been that good, i guess its part of the reason why im from the "cut it to fit" school of engineering

Saying that, the maths of it all is part of the challenge, and i like a challenge :D

[Curmudgeon 28]

Hey Ian!!!!!!!!

I'm of the school, cut it, if it's too short, CUT IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!