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GizmoB73

Can we really "shift-on-the-go"

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I have bought (and will be picking up this weekend) a 1996 12-32XL.

I read somewhere on the internet that despite what the manuals say about being able to change gears whilst moving, this should NOT be done as it will trash the transmission really quickly.

I would like to ask the experts what you think about this. Is it safe to "Shift-on-the-go" or not? :thumbs:

Do you do this and have you had any problems?

All opinions welcome as I am a complete newbie.

Thanks

Giz.

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Hi, Giz, and :WRS: !

I don't know anything about your specific model of tractor, but the educated thinking (and experience, I believe) across the board here is NOT to shift gears on the manual trannies while in motion, and certainly not the hi-lo range selector - that is almost certain disaster.] These trannies have square cut gears and no synchromesh. Even if you are a very highly skilled driver with a ton of experience on old-style trannies in hitting the gear properly by matching motion to engine RPM's, I wouldn't take the chance. WH trannies are pretty bomb-proof, but shifting on the fly will wreck 'em sooner than later. :banghead:

Others, please chime in here!

Duff :thumbs:

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hmmm..im confused then..

Ive never driven a tractor..of any kind..

I assumed the "manual" shift was just like a car..

clutch - 1st gear - clutch (while in motion) - 2nd gear - etc..

if you stop each time, I dont understand how the different gears work..

do you go from a dead-stop straight to 3rd?

so you pick your gear, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, based on your "anticipated" speed then?

but every gear starts from a dead stop?

huh..who knew? (everyone but me! :thumbs:

im glad I can learn these things *before* I try to drive one!

(Anyone have a "tractor driving 101" course on-line anywhere?)

thanks,

Scot

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This is not the unidrive transmission that we're all used to.

This particular tractor has a cable attached to the gear shift that declutches when you pull the gear shift out of the detent notch to move to the next gear. It will shift on the fly.

It uses a Peerless aluminum transaxle, the gearshift is on the right rear fender and all of the gears in a straight line with reverse at the rear and high (6th?) gear at the front.

Click on the link and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.outdoorpower.com/torotractors.htm

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IMO, you always stop before changing gears. My 1977 B-100 8-speed has never had a problem in its 32 years of service. I always stop before changing gears.

Scot, it's not at all like a car. You choose your gear range solely dependent upon the job you are doing.

Bob

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Thanks Duff, that probably answers my question but anyone is welcome to add their 2p worth.

Hi Scot, as I posted, I don't actually have mine yet, but have downloaded and read the manual. From what I understand, the Clutch and break are on the same peddle, so you cannot open the clutch without applying the brake. I don't know whether this is the same on all Wheel Horses, or just mine.

Thanks so far.

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This is not the unidrive transmission that we're all used to.

This particular tractor has a cable attached to the gear shift that declutches when you pull the gear shift out of the detent notch to move to the next gear. It will shift on the fly.

It uses a Peerless aluminum transaxle, the gearshift is on the right rear fender and all of the gears in a straight line with reverse at the rear and high (6th?) gear at the front.

Click on the link and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.outdoorpower.com/torotractors.htm

Hi Jim,

That sounds like an accurate description, but I wasn't aware that there was a de-clutch cable on the shifter. That's good to know.

So it is sounding like it can shift on the go now unless anyone else knows different?

Thanks Jim.

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Try this link to the manual, down load the service manual (free) and look at section 2, page 19 it shows a great view of the shifter and clutch cable assembly and explains how it works.

https://homeownersolutions.toro.com/portal/...nualsResultPage

If the link doesn't work, go to the Toro MPV and use model # 71182.

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I **** my 8 speed c81's on the go Clutch nuetral clutch gear never had a problem. An they have strait cut gears

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Try this link to the manual, down load the service manual (free) and look at section 2, page 19 it shows a great view of the shifter and clutch cable assembly and explains how it works.

https://homeownersolutions.toro.com/portal/...nualsResultPage

If the link doesn't work, go to the Toro MPV and use model # 71182.

Hi Jim,

I checked out the service manual you mentioned. Spot on the nose with the advice, looks like these really can be shifted on the go.

Many thanks, you are a star! :thumbs:

:banghead:

Giz.

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Click on the link and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.outdoorpower.com/torotractors.htm

Jim, just FYI that link has expired (Sunday).

Rockin', no disrespect meant, but I still stand by what I've always been told and still believe - the Unidrives weren't meant to be shifted on the fly.

Giz, I wasn't aware of the type of tranny you have. Nice thing about this forum(among many!) is the opportunity to learn something new every day!

Duff :thumbs:

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(Gizmo, I dont mean to hijack your thread! :banghead: but I figure this thread is the perfect place to discuss this issue)

I still dont quite understand..

So apparently there are different types of manual transmissions on wheel horse tractors? some you *can* "shift on the go" and some you should never shift on the go? How do you know which is which?

I was just reading the owners manual for the 1964 604-654-704 series and it says:

(emphasis mine)

Clutching: Do not force the gear shift lever if the gears do not immediately mesh.

Depress clutch pedal all the way down and let up, then depress again and shift.,

To avoid sudden storts, release clutch pedal slowly ..

While in motion do not shift gears without depressing clutch pedal.

The clutch pedal also operates the brakes WHEN DEPRESSED ALL THE WAY DOWN.

For this reason, you should depress the clutch pedal ONLY 2/3 OF

THE WAY DOWN WHEN SHIFTING while in motion ..

This clutch-brake pedal combination makes clutching automatic as you apply the brakes to stop.

That definately sounds like a "car style" clutching/shifting, where you change gears while in motion..

but also people are saying "always come to a stop before changing gears"..

so what am I missing? :thumbs:

thanks,

Scot

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So apparently there are different types of manual transmissions on wheel horse tractors? some you *can* "shift on the go" and some you should never shift on the go? How do you know which is which?

I was just reading the owners manual for the 1964 604-654-704 series and it says:

(emphasis mine)

Clutching: Do not force the gear shift lever if the gears do not immediately mesh.

Depress clutch pedal all the way down and let up, then depress again and shift.,

To avoid sudden storts, release clutch pedal slowly ..

While in motion do not shift gears without depressing clutch pedal.

The clutch pedal also operates the brakes WHEN DEPRESSED ALL THE WAY DOWN.

For this reason, you should depress the clutch pedal ONLY 2/3 OF

THE WAY DOWN WHEN SHIFTING while in motion ..

This clutch-brake pedal combination makes clutching automatic as you apply the brakes to stop.

That definately sounds like a "car style" clutching/shifting, where you change gears while in motion..

Yes, there are different types of WH transmissions, but I'll be the first to admit I'm now in way over my head on this topic. I'll sit back and wait for the experts to chime in....and I'll look forward to learning from it!

Cheers!

Duff :thumbs:

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Scott,

There were several different transmissions used in the Wheel Horse machines even among the garden tractors. The lawn tractors were provided with a shift on the fly feature that allowed shifting between forward gears while in motion.

The Uni-Drive shifting proceedure is as follows because this transmission does not have gear synchros. The manual recommends a complete stop before changing gears and slowly engaging the clutch after selecting the gear you choose.

The gear ratios are such that the engine can easily get the tractor in motion from a dead stop even in third. It's recommended that you slowly engage the clutch to prevent unintended wheelies and upending the tractor which can be done if your not careful.

As to the shift on the fly feature, I had a 12-38 with the shift on the go feature. A change between 3rd and 4th about a month into ownership caused the tranny to split on top where the input pulley is. I went and spoke to the dealer about it and he told me that it was going to be warrantied but that the design was poor and the tranny really couldn't handle the load shock that the shift on the fly created

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Thanks Jack,

I think I have it now! :thumbs:

So you tell which kind you have by reading the owners manual..

some say you can "shift on the go"..the other manual will clearly say "come to a stop"..

but even on the ones where the manual says you technically can shift on the go, its probably not a good idea to do so anyway! so "best practice" would be to never shift on the go, regardless of what kind of transmission you have.. and there seems to be no reason why you would need to do so anyway..

does that about cover it?

thanks,

Scot

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I dont exactly know what he means shift on the go. I asume he means well it is still in motion, Ive shifted my wheel horse c81's that way. However i did not force them into gear. When i shifted there may have been some motion an i dident come to a complete stop. so no disrespect taken duff

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The Peerless transaxles on many of the lawn mowers are supposedly shift on the fly capable.

The Wheel Horse Uni-Drives on the garden tractors were never intended to be.

Shift on the fly can mean many things. If you are talking about jamming it across while under load without clutching, you're asking for trouble. None should ever be shifted like this.

If you are talking about clutching and sliding it across with no load on the gears, little or no harm will be done. Depends on how smooth you are.

There are often times I'll gear down without clutching on the Uni-drive. It's easy enough to feel if the gear is under or load or not, slip it into neutral, wait for the speeds to match up and slip it into the next gear. Just like a truck shifts. Not your pickup either, I mean a non-synchronized truck transmission.

It's not so much whether the transaxles are capable as much as is the operator capable. No disrespect to anyone, but if you're not sure what you're doing, odds are, the transaxle is not shift on the fly capable. If however, you know exactly what's going on in the transaxle, all of them are shift on the fly capable.

My opinion, yours is free to vary.

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All i can say is that the three speed in little stinker you suppose to stop BUt it has stright grears and if you match the speed with engine speed it will shift on the fly

as the big boys in nascar shift I would hate to see them come to a stop :thumbs:

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I shift on the fly only if there is an accelerator pedal.

My 652 pulling tractor has an accelerator and I know the right RPM to shift. The gears never grind if you only push it down half way and shift it like you would a regular car.

These trannys are tough so it doesn't hurt it if you are good at it.

Same with my D-250. I wouldn't change High to Low on an 8 speed though..

Just think of the early manual trannys. They weren't synchronized. And they still work!

Charlie

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Just to clarify, I was actually referring to "Shift-On-The-Go" which is exactly what it is called by Wheel Horse themselves in their spec sheet.

It would appear that on the newer Lawn Tractors (mowers), the shift lever will de-clutch for you as you move it out of gear (if they are specified as "Shift-On-The-Go"). That is probably not the case with most (if not all) of the Garden Tractors.

I am happy that I now have the information that I was seeking, and although it has drifted slightly off topic, I have certainly learned loads and would like to thank everyone for their contribution.

:thumbs:

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you guys can belive waht you want but i always belive in stopin befroe you shift cuz if you think about it its not a car tranny with a cluch when you push the pedal down on a mower its basically takin the presssure off the belt to let you shift. but im not here to make anyone mines up fer them but i would just stop to shift cuz you know it wont grind the gears if you do :thumbs:

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Guys, you're all thinking of the good old cast iron unidrive transmission. This is not that transmission. It's a different transmission entirely.

Take a look at the service manual that I posted the link for and you'll see what I mean.

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Im really thankfull for this post,I was unaware of this. I have only been able to drive both of my WH's a couple of times in a small circle in my yard just to test each gear out and to see if the trans was in good order and I did it from a stop each time. In the future I will be sure to only shift when stopped on my Wheel Horses.

Thanks for passing this on!

John

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 Okay' the old Uni is a different beast, thanks' I'm learning.  Being It was mentioned, maybe some can use our info here to compare? Here's some info...

 On my 1976 B-100 8 speed for yrs now I quickly & smoothly up/down shift without clutching (aka: speedshift) all the time with no load without it ever missing,grinding, etc.. It does have the cast iron hi/lo range Uni-Drive (5091) with 8 pinion gears fwiw here... But' I treat mine like old pre 70's non synchronized truck trans are made and don't ever downshift to 1st gear while moving. It will go into 1st but it's harder and can grind a bit. I'm not the "If you can't find'em grind'em" type of guy..lol    I strongly agree just as mentioned "with a load", I wouldn't try speed shifting it either nor would I "EVER" even think of trying the Hi/Lo shifter while moving. No Way Man!!

  

Now' for why I'm posting, Wheel Horse did in fact advertise the old iron "Uni-Drive" as being synchronized (see below) but my tractor manual also says not to shift while moving, always stop to shift. 

  My B-100 in truth is really is a large "C-series" iron framed horizontal engine tractor, in fact it's the same exact tractor as the 1974-75 C-100 8 speed but are minus that nice high back seat & B-100's headlights were optional. So' this is not the lawn mower version B-series with a vertical shaft engine and I can't even speak for their trans design without any knowledge on them.  But' these two B's continually get confused when the B-series is mentioned but are completely different units to my limited understanding only being on horizontal engine Wheel Horse tractors.

  fwiw--Mine has the clutch on the left and brake pedal on the right, push the clutch pedal down as far as you want it won't ever engage the brake as there is no cable or rod connecting the left clutch pedal to the brake hub. It will only coast to a stop!!  Well' if you are lucky it will?...lol  The right pedal is my only brake, hold it down, move a small lever near gear shifters forward to lock tractor parking brake on.

 

  Trust me' with over 30yrs using clutch/brake combo pedal lawnmowers It was a rather hard to train my right foot to also hit a brake to stop suddenly on my tractor. Unlike vehicles always using my right foot to brake you just can't here, this was like learning on a drum set man..So' words like Oh' sh!t, Somb!ch, and Well' Fu(#  were quite frequently & loudly heard from me by all my neighbors!!  Welcome to the neighborhood huh?..lol  

   Shove the throttle on up' put it in hi/hi and I learned rather quickly it certainly is a horse of course and to really hold on!!  Luckily I have flat property with no large cliffs, ditches or hills so' no grille, fenders or forehead dents to date and I'm still alive to pester folk. 

 

   It was fun learning her though, I love this old tractor, never once missed my last cookie cutter framed, all aluminum engine / hydro trans lawnmower I sold to buy this. Although it operated much easier, it & many more just like it will be scrapped long before this iron wheel horse tractor is. Mine still has not even had first rings replaced,no smoke, no oil leaks/burned, not one major in its history, simply a remarkable 41yr old machine and a testament of our ancestors wisdoms, strengths & core values!  What the hell happened?

 The pic below was located here..Hope this helps someone?  I am in the process of moving after 20yrs here so my future posts may be very delayed, sorry.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/174303448048257909

 

189727bb12b0bc5c201f75e89d3aad6e.jpg

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