confession of a wheel horse owner

[perry 82]

whats it like to mow grass with a wheel horse ? because I..... .

as a collector for over 15 years i have to admit i have never mowed grass with any of my wheel horse tractors .

back on the farm our neighbor owned a cub cadet / wheel horse dealer but all i can remember him bringing us home was cub cadets and kubuta's to use to mow grass.

i have 3 1960's decks & 3 1970's decks sitting in the shed collecting dust. i think i am going to sell my cub this year and actually suit up the B-100 with a mower deck.

soooo.... whats it like to mow with a wheel horse ?

P.S havent'nt you guys ever notice i never post pictures of my tractors with the decks on.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,114]

Interesting question, as I have never mowed without a Wheel Horse so I too have nothing to base it on. What I can tell you is when the 416-H is humming along, it is truly relaxing to spend some time in style. I have the recycler on my 42" and take it good and slow. I don't think that I have ever wanted to "rush" to get finished.

[Kelly 1,028]

Perry I'm in the same boat as you. I've never mowed more than a few min. with any wheel horse, I use them for everything else.

I mow with a green and yellow thing LX 188 it's just a lawn mower not a real tractor, before that one was a JD 316 and that was a Jacobson and when I lived at home it was a sears and JD's.

[kj4kicks 151]

Perry, It'll make you want to buy more land !! :thumbs:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Well, I have mow only briefly with a Wheel Horse, my 314-8. My best mowing machine is my, grasp, JD '06 X320. It just does an excellent job, with it's tight turning radius, it's foot control hydro and the excellent 48" deck.

The 314-8, from what I can tell when I did mow with it, leaves a good smooth, cut. I think most decks will give you a good cut as long as you have sharp blades, a level deck, and maintain a proper ground speed and blade tip speed. Just my 2 cents worth. :thumbs:

[Rollerman 290]

I can't say I've mowed with anything else here at the house either...well since I gave up the push mower & started collecting the horses.

I can say my former 520H with 48" side discharge was the best cut I have ever seen!

But I still prefer the 42" rear discharge since not all my trees & obstacles are on the left side.

You just can"t beat that paticular deck if your mowing in tight quarters.

Some swear buy the 32" & 36" rear discharge gear driven decks...I've never really had a good one to be honest.

I do now have a perfect 32" in that style & intend to use it once to find out.

Perry sounds like you have all the right equipment...put some sharp blade on a deck & see what that B100 will do. :thumbs:

[wh500special 2,053]

Perry, et. al;

I don't mow with any of my Wheel Horses either! (and I have a bunch of them)

back in 1987 dad bought a new 211-4 with the 37" Sd deck and a bagger and it was a great mower (still is too after 1500 hours on the original aluminum briggs and peerless). That tractor started the nonsense of collecting these things for me. Dad still has the tractor, but retired it for a bigger machine when he moved.

When I lived in South Bend (my first home on my own) I had a yard that was big enough for a tractor, but I always used my LawnBoy push mower since I was in good shape and could cut faster than I could with a tractor (that was a few years and several pounds ago ). When I did use a WH and deck to play around, I found I was never happy with the cut quality except that obtained by the 37" and newer 38" decks. But keep in mind that all of the yards in my neighborhood including mine were perfectly manicured (in ground spinklers, lots of fertilizer, aerating, dethatching, the works) so the standards were impossibly high.

Even when set up properly, the 42" side discharge really seems to leave a lot of un-cut grass since it doesn't seem to generate much vacuum. The 48" SD is better though, but not really on par with some of the nicer

"air tunnel" decks from more modern Toro's or competitors. Perhaps the longer blades equate to more overlap and higher tip speeds compared to the 42".

I like the 42" RD for the ability to trim on both sides, but have found that if the grass is tall/heavy/thick/wet it leaves a lot of clumps on the lawn. Makes sense though since the grass can't be easily dispersed by any RD deck. But the RD decks can nearly double as bush hogs since they can process a lot of material.

I don't recommend using a RD on a hydro tractor unless you are mindful of sweeping the chaff from the pump housing to allow cooling.

The old style cross shaft decks (32" and 36" RD) do a good job at CUTTING the grass, but tend to windrow the clippings if the grass is heavy.

And they also deposit it immediately in front of the rear wheels which then roll over it and pack it down.

Really, I have never been terribly impressed by the cut quality of most of WH's decks. I think a lot, though, depends on how particular you are about how the lawn looks and also on the exact conditions of your lawn. For example, now that I have 10 acres to cut and millions of dandelions (literally), my standards are way, way lower than they were in my weed-free South Bend lawn.

Toro/WH published a "Quality of Cut" manual for the more modern tractors that details how to optimize your setup to get the most out of the deck. talks about leveling the deck from front to back and some other "tips" to get the most out of them. I think it can be downloaded free from Toro.com

I know a lot of guys who know me from the Yahoo site are groaning right now about my little rant ...sorry. But, I think most of the shortcomings of the WH decks really just relate to the older "flat deck" designs that don't make much allowance for airflow. Look at virtually any modern deck and you see a deep channel that promotes high air speeds at the leading edge of the deck. And as we all remember from our fluid dynamics classes , higher fluid velocites equate to greater vacuum (more or less). Better vacuum stands more blades of grass upright. More upright blades get cut better. etc.

New decks on modern zero turns seem to have gone back to the "flat" design, but they make up for it with higher blade speeds, airfoils on the blade tips, and/or lots of internal baffling. WH improved the decks over the years, but at least into the 80's really didn't match the likes of Simpicity or Deere in cut quality.

I have never used a newer 52" deck from Toro, but it looks like it ought to be a good cutter..and I have heard reports that it does indeed do a great job. The 60" used on the C195 is something I have no familiarity with so can't comment, but its wacky design suggests it isn't optimized for a great cut.

The 60" used on the 520-H, however, is reported to be a great cutter.

I have the identical deck under my 724-Z zero turn and can report that it does a decent job. I run the tractor at almost full ground speed when cutting so imagine that on a slower moving 520 it leaves no blades untouched. I suspect that deck was designed/made by Dixie Chopper since they made the zero turns for WH (and later, Toro) for many years. That is a heavy sucker too! About 350 pounds I think!

Ironically, that 60" deck is a flat top design. But there are baffles underneath and more appreciable overlaps on the blades than on the older WH decks. Still doesn't match the best decks out there, but a very capable cutter nonetheless.

Presently, I cut my grass - as infrequently as possible - with the following items:

1. 1995 Toro-WH 724-Z with a 60" deck

2. 1981 Ford 1700 tractor with 72" JD 3pt mower when the grass is too tall for the Toro.

3. the Ford and a 5' bush hog for when things get out of hand.

I sometimes cut around the house with a WH if I want the grass shorter or want to play, but I generally reserve the WH's for tilling, blading, pulling, etc and seldom have a deck mounted to any of them.

Amazingly, the zero turn Toro with its little 5' deck will cut my grass significantly faster than will the ford with its bigger 6' deck. Unless something breaks, i will never go back to cutting with a tractor style mower again. I regularly mow about 3-4 acres around the house as a "lawn" and the Toro does the job in about 1.5 hours compared to the Ford doing it in 2.5. AND, I don't have nearly the trimming with the string trimmer I did before! What an invention!

(Where did the claim that a GT-14 with a 48" deck could cut 3 acres an hour come from? I guess if you had a 48" wide stretch of grass a couple miles long it would do it...)

So, what was my point?

if you expect your lawn to look like a well manicured estate (better than a golf course) you might be disappointed with any 20+ year old tractor. But if you want something that does a "B" grade job and puts you in the seat for a few hours, you can't go wrong with any WH mower.

I feel kind of badly about opening such a can of worms as a relative newcomer, but just trying to offer what i think is an objective opinion based on my experience. Your results may vary!

Best wishes ,

Steve

[perry 82]

Perry I'm in the same boat as you. I've never mowed more than a few min. with any wheel horse, I use them for everything else.

i see that im not alone, and kelly has a way larger herd than me .

steve, that was some good info and explaing of the different decks. i picked up a 42" rear discharge deck last year and have been wanting to try it out. i am not looking for that perfect cut. just something to get the gas cut and do a decent job. i do not have anywhere near a manicured lawn. no one even see's it but me and who ever comes over. i alot of it has to do with the type of grass you have. my place is alot of hard ground and woods.

this lawn in the pic was mowed with a 40+yr old tractor.

just for fun, anybody guess what brand ?.

.......THIS IS NOT MY LAWN........

[Rollerman 290]

Hmm...I'm thinking Ian's Webb Cricket Pitch reel mower?

Although it looks like the same job my 312A does W/42" side discharge & the lawn vac running. :thumbs:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Steve,

Nice write up. I have never used a rear discharge deck, so I have no reference point on them. It sounds like your Toro Z is a commercial mower, so I would expect a faster mow, and a good quality cut with it. If I had to do it all again, I don't know if I would choose a Z or my JD X320 or not.

BTW, this brings up an interesting question. I noticed in some brochures Toro made a Wheel Horse branded Z back in the late 80's/early 90's. I would assume no one here has one, but has anyone seen one? Used one?

[Mith 2]

Perry, I'm guessing thats a Simplicity/AC unit that mowed that.

Terry, I have seen pictures of the toro/wheelhorse Z mowers. Now to remember where I saw them.....

The 32" gear drive mower does a nice job on the Commando, but the WheelHorses dont make particularly good mowing tractors.

Nicest mower I have had the pleasure of using (although very briefly) was a 4WS Deere 455.

[kpinnc 10,686]

Perry, if you use the B100, I wouldn't go any bigger than a 42 inch deck. My 310-8 mows best with the 37 SD, but will push the 42 SD. The 37 SD leaves a much better cut, probably because of the tip speed of 2 blades being faster than 3 short ones.

I can't speak for any of the rear discharge decks, because I haven't mowed with any of them. I have three, but haven't got around to trying them out yet.

Personally, I think my 37SD does a very good job. I would put it up against any similar deck setup out there. Add the lawn vac, and it is nearly perfect. Stripes the lawn and everything.

The 42SD works best with Gator blades. Almost no clippings left over, unless you mow a yard that gets to looking like a pasture.

I use my neighbor's JD to mow his grass for him, as he is unable to do so. I think it's a LX172 (or something like that), and is a pile of krap. New blades, belts, bearings, the whole nine. It runs and drives great, but is best suited to ferry you down the driveway to check the mail. It is a very poor mower. Kawasaki engine, Eaton tranny, and awful mower. He used to have an old 112, and it was 10 times the machine. Oh well, enough of my rambling...

Good luck! I think you'll enjoy mowing with a Wheel Horse as much as any other chore you use them for.

Kevin

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

Kevin.

The JD LX series are usually excellent mowers, one of the best. Could it be the deck needs leveling. I know a guy who used a LX mower commercially and it left a flawless cut, perfect in fact. I don't know if I ever heard of a complaint with the cut a LX leaves. :thumbs:

[wh500special 2,053]

That photo HAS to be from a Simplicity or Allis. The "steamroller" on the back of the deck is really what works their magic.

WH offered several commercial mowers starting around ' 86-ish (I'd have to look). Aside from the early 5018 model (18hp Briggs vertical , 50" deck) they are all fundamentally the same. In addition to the unique 5018, they offered a 718-Z, a 720-Z, and a 724-Z. I think the 18's and 20's used Kohler horizontals. The 24's were Onan's. Deck sizes included 48", 50", and 60". not all decks fit all models of course but are darn close.

all of these commercial units are dead ringers for the Dixie Choppers of the same era. Not sure if production happened under WH's roof in South Bend or Dixie Chopper's in Geencastle, but there are apparently some DC's that have interchangeable parts.

Toro carried the 724 production into the 90's. Really, the only differences are in the decals and trim. The mower I use is a 1995 Toro "Proline" 724-Z with the 60" deck, but I junked out a 1990 Toro-WH 724 that was virtually identical for parts.

Compared to the zero turns that are out today, the 700 series are dinosaurs and are very crude machines. But they do a pretty good job and are fast...much faster than a tractor style tractor. I think the manual lists top speed at 8 mph and they do cut decently at full tilt (but they do miss here and there).

here's my 724. Sorry for the clutter, but it is still tucked away for winter.

Other than the decks, Wh did offer snowblades and baggers for these machines. My experience is that they have poor traction so I'd wonder about the efficacy of a snowblade. The bagger units had an impeller that ran off the second PTO pulley on the 24 Onan. Slick setup.

Apparently the biggest weakness to these tractors were the Eaton 7 hydro transmissions. These relatively light duty units were coupled to an elaborate chain drive mechanism to get power to the wheels. Kind of goofy, but it did work well enough I suppose.

In 1990 (again, this is going from memory) Toro unveiled the 600 series mowers. They had vertical shaft Onan's and used decks that were lifted from the WH line of tractors. never had the opportunity to buy one, but would like to add one to the fleet. My understanding is that the "integrated dual hydro" transaxle was a bit of a sore spot on these. i think deck sizes ranged from 42-52 inches and engines ran the gammut from 12-20 HP. A fuel injected version was even offered.

having mowed with a ZRT I will never willfully go back to using a tractor. In comparison a tractor is just too cumbersome, slow, and unmanuverable. But, a Z doesn't do much other than cut grass.

generally, I find that purpose-built machines almost always perform better than a combination unit. Be it a mower, tiller, power tool, whatever. Just fewer compromises to make when designing the things I guess.

Whew...another wordy post.

Steve

[Sparky-(Admin) 19,450]

Perry, could that lawn have been cut by a Massey Ferguson ? I had an MF-10 with the wide "steamroller" type wheel on the back of the deck.

Mike........cant stand suspence......

[Kelly 1,028]

I own a 1994 JD LX 188 It has a water cooled Kawasaki twin 17hp, with a foot controled hydro, and it turns on a dime, it has a 48" sd deck, With sharp blades it cuts and stripes your lawn as nice as you could ever ask for. It's not built like a tank it's a mower not a GT, I've been using it for about 6-7 years, it hasn't fell apart yet. I kinda like my main yard around the house to look as good as I can, but it's very uneven, lots of large maple trees with big roots to mow around, it does a nice job.My boy uses it to mow a old mans lawn up the road and everyone comments on how nice it mows, there and at our house. I'm sorry I love my Wheel horses but I like the way the JD mows, When I replace it I've been looking at the newer toro small lawn tractors with the newer tunnel style deck like my jd has. My two cents worth. Kelly

[perry 82]

the lawn in the pic was mowed with a 1964 allis chalmers B-10. ya the rollers on the back and floating deck is nice.

my B-100 has a upgraded 14hp kohler so the 42" deck i have should be no promblem.

[Jim_M 178]

I mow out at the farm with a 520-H that has the ungodly heavy 60" deck on it, and it does a beautiful job. The yard out there is a flat and level 4 acres.

At home I use my 416-H with a 48" deck and I think it does a beatuful job too. My yard at home is hilly, and the 520 didn't work out well on it.

No matter what tractor, I keep the blades sharp, the deck level side to side and the front of the deck 1/4" lower than the rear. I think no matter what deck the secret is in keeping the front lower than the rear.

Even my old Yazoo will do pretty nice job if the blades are sharp and everything is adjusted where it should be, although I'm not sure it was designed to mow nicely, more likely it was designed to mow quickly and it's good at that.

[hoosier 1]

I have'nt cut grass with a WH since around '93. For me, cutting grass has nothing to do with my love of small tractors. I consider it a chore, and use a couple of cheapies for that. They cut well and fast. That being said, when I first got my little 8- 4 speed, my first WH, I used it to mow. Our kids were small and I wanted to be with them and help my wife as much as possible. Therefore I did most of my mowing after dark, after bedtime. The little 36 inch side discharge would cut wet, dewy grass with hardly any clumping. I even mowed when raining. I then got an old Commando V8, less motor, with a rear discharge deck. Just out of curiosity I swapped whatever pieces needed to try it out on the 4 speed. It always made a messy discharge, even in dry conditions. I never liked it. Just my experience. Jim

[kpinnc 10,686]

The JD LX series are usually excellent mowers, one of the best.

Sorry Terry, I went out tonight and looked. It just says "175 Hydro" on the hood. the machine I was griping about looks to be about 2 steps up from a Murray.

Sorry for the misleading post earlier. I like a few of the older model JDs myself, just not this one here. <_<

It has a 17 hp engine and an Eaton 700 driven tranny. No problems there at all, but it sounds like it's coming apart at the seams when you engage the deck, and the blades stall terribly in anything remotely thick. My 10hp Wheel Horse runs through MUCH thicker spots and never even grunts.

I've tried everything I can think of to make it mow better. ALL of the hardware on the deck has been replaced, and it honestly scares me to use it. The ONLY reason I do is because my neighbor owns it. He's disabled, and asked me to mow his lawn for him with it. He loves it, and I think it does him good to have something outside to bragg on. I just go along with his high praise of the thing, take it home, park it, and thank God I didn't fly away on it.

Funny thing is, it looks really nice. Always kept indoors, and serviced regularly.

Kevin

[JosephC 0]

I want to add my .02 to the pot. I have mowed with three of my Wheelhorses that I have now. My 520H , 416H and my Workhorse GT1142. In my area when I was growing up my family had JD green to mow with and when my father came home the one day with a Wheelhorse Charger 12 with 42" rear discharge. That old Wheelhorse Charger ran so much smoother that my grandfathers old JD 110 with the side discharge that would clump up the grass leaving piles of grass in the yard that I would have to rake up. It was like a dream come to that I did not have to rake the whole yard to get rid of grass clumps. Back in 1972 when I started my lawn mowing business with the 6 yards I had to mow that year along with my parents and grand parents yards. I used my dads Wheelhorse Charger and buying it from him in 1973,then adding a 1972 Wheelhorse Raider 10 with a 36" rear discharge. I was only in 9th grade when I did this,I kept this business going till 1996 when me and my two brothers said enough was enough and shut the mowing business down for about 2 years. When we quit in the fall in 1996 we had 50 summer homes, 10 permant homes, 4 commersal jobs and a thirty ac. natural gas pump station lawn. We had 7 tractors,4 trim tractors(2 of these tractors were Wheelhorses) and 3 trailers in the business. I restarted a small lawn mowing business in 1998 with 10 of my old customers, but now I use Kubota ZG21 mower, and one of my three old Wheelhorses in my small business because you CANNOT get good mowing like an old Wheelhorse rear discharge.

[bowtieguy 334]

What????...u guys don't mow with a WH???....you be missing out on alot of fun..I got rid of the Crapsman and Cadet stuff because I didn'nt like the way they mowed.

If you've never used a WH with a rear discharge deck, ya got to try it....all the neighbors will think you hired a lawn service.

I mow with ALL WH stuff, from a Lawn ranger,702, B-82,GT-14, C-165, a couple 417-A's to the big ole D-160.....I like the GT-14 best because of the easy ride and EASY steering, but the 417-A is probably my favorite.

Frank in MO (no trailer queens in this horse barn)

Heck, I know a guy that mowes with THREE Wheel Horses...rides a big ole D-250 and pulls an A-frame behind with TWO C-series with 48" deck (front axle removed)

Now can you picture that ....one trip up and back= a 24 ft swath :thumbs:

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

I have to say I wish I could try a rear discharged deck, but, alas, I don't have one. Maybe I need to some searching for one....Off to Craig's List to see what's there.. Seriously, though, I would love to try one sometime and will, hopefully, when I run across one.

Kevin,

Still the JD 175 SHOULD give you a good cut. Hmm, and the deck should be quiet. I used the 175 predecessors, a JD 112L and a JD 111, both with a similar deck to the 175, and they both cut flawlessly, quiet, no clumping and even cut in tall, thick grass without hesitation. Something amiss with that mower. :P

[kpinnc 10,686]

Still the JD 175 SHOULD give you a good cut.

I agree Terry, it should mow much better than it does. I'd love to get it right so I wouldn't feel bad joshing the man who owns it....

There is still quite a bit of yellow paint under the deck, which tells me it's fairly new. I truthfully think it's a blade balance issue, or something under there out of balance.

Kevin

[Michcruiser60 0]

:thumbs:

Cub mows here.

If everthing goes right.... this spring that gets changed to a Wheel Horse. Still working on the guy now. I'll get em. :P