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stevasaurus

702 with hydro-2

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Hey Jim

Indy here. you stated that the IH dealers still carry the spring?? I've called 3 dealers around me

and they said they are OBSOLETE!! They even called other dealers and got the same reply!! So

what dealer you callin and where are they located???

Thanks Indy

:thumbs:

Hmmm... Messick's had them a short while back, as did Parts tree. Now Parts tree says they are NLA and Messick's says they have none in stock and have to be ordered. That don't sound too good.

http://www.messicks.com/partsearch.aspx?pn=ih-386371-r1

Terry, That feller on Ebay mentions his pile of springs, but what about all those pump gears in the background!? :notworthy:

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OK guys...I did a complete teardown of the HY-2. Jim, that spring is almowt 1/8" dia...where did you buy the wire? I think I can make some kind of jig...but it is heavy duty. Here is a couple of pics of the spring so we are talking the same language. It appears that my spring has an extra bend on each side, compared to the spring in Jason's pics. Take a look. I did not punch the roll pin out yet...need a punch 3/32.

2008_1130PUMPHY-20006.JPG

2008_1130PUMPHY-20007.JPG

Indy...very nice talking to you yesterday. Looks like I only need 4 parts...had the rest.:

part 56 #1455 "o" ring that goes on PU-101 Spool where the return spring goes. Part 54 #1453 the washer that goes on top on canister under 3/8 hex nut.

Part 48 #1447 B-44 seal- goes behind pulley. Part 20 #4837 PU-110 spring for return handle.

The spring and 121-5 pump ball are OK. Heck of a time getting that slot screw plug to free up.

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Holy-cow steve ya tore up your pump :thumbs: I told ya it was a piece-of-cake!! Was the 5/16 ball ok?

(all shiny n smooth)? No pits? Looks like it's good to go. I'll b off work Monday morn.So I'll

order more oil seals,because I'm out of em. Looks like ya got it under control,so gimme a call mon. Around 10 if ya want.

Indy :notworthy:

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Indy...call around 10:00 AM your time, Monday...I intend to make a trip to the hardware store tommorow and maybe tractor supply...try to figure out what Linen used to make that spring...did you see the differences between the springs that Jason posted and mine?

Duke, Fireman and myself are looking to bend our own springs...wonder if they have the extra bend in theirs? Mine looks like a tough bend, but not impossible.I wonder if Linen had the Jason spring?

I was just worried about the 1/4" of wire that broke off the spring...looked in the fluid that I drained...blew brake cleaner through all holes (both ways)...blew out the hoses...nothing. I do have a metal grit in the fluid...but nothing really there to grind things up likethat. I don't know...that piece went somewhere, but I can't find it. :thumbs: No dings in the cylinders, plates, pistons. Anybody ever not find the piece of spring that broke off? :notworthy: :WRS:

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Steve try holding a pretty strong magnet over the spring leg hole. If it's

still in there the magnet will pull it out

Indy :notworthy:

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It appears that my spring has an extra bend on each side, compared to the spring in Jason's pics.

:notworthy: Never even seen a picture of a spring like that one. Could it be an improved replacement from Hein Werner? That extra loop is right where most of the originals break and the new bends should make that area more resilient. :WRS:

My spring is shaped just like the one in the IPL.

I bought my wire at Hobby Town. I started with a 36 inch long piece of music wire, I can't recall the thickness, I'm wanting to say 3/32. There are mail order music wire dealers that stock the exact thickness, but I didn't want to fool with ordering anything. My left over stuff is still in my other house in Lexington, 75 miles away, so I would have to check it's thickness when I'm down there, and remember to.

I started by making the two right angled bends around one jaw of a small vise. It was, luckily, just the right width. Then I clamped a small drill rod in the vise and bent the loops around the rod. I drilled a hole in a piece of flat steel stock just big enough to go over the end of the drill rod. another hole about 1/4 inch away had a small screw driven into it. The hole goes over the drill rod and the screw acts as a pin to hold the wire against the flat bar. A second piece of flat stock wedged between the newly formed flat bottom of the spring and the drill rod will hold the flat end still. Turning the flat bar one rotation around the drill rod bends one loop into the wire. It has to be bent past 180 degrees as it will spring back some. The mandrel (drill rod) has to be a fairly small diameter too, because as it springs back the loop tends to open up some. That gives you a loop for one side of the spring. Lift the wire from the rod, flip it over and place the newly formed loop back around the drill rod. Position your holding and bending flat stocks and make a bend in the other spring leg. You will have to twist in the opposite direction since the spring has been turned over. The two loops should now be about evenly spaced. My copy isn't perfect by any means, but it works.

If y'all try this be careul not to let the flat steel bar slip out of your hand while it has tension on it. They kinda hurt when they come flying back around and find the back of your hand. :thumbs:

My original spring was broken into five or six pieces but all of it was laying inside the reservoir when I opened it up.

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I have the same spring as Steve in both of mine. From what I understand, that was the original way thet came (there are two IPL revisions). They were braking to easy and went to the 2nd revision.

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I have the same spring as Steve in both of mine. From what I understand, that was the original way thet came (there are two IPL revisions). They were braking to easy and went to the 2nd revision.

:notworthy: I've not seen a second revision. Are there any other changes that you know of?

Steve. You asked how much fluid these hold. The manual calls for 3 full cans of fluid at installation, but doesn't say how much is in each can. Does anybody know off hand?

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Jim, thanks for your instructions on bending the spring. I am going shopping. If I can find the wire, and I think you are correct about the 3/32" dia.. I am going to give it a shot. From what Fireman said about mine and his springs being originals, I think bending the spring to match the one in the manual will be easier.

Just to let everyone know...my spring broke off about 1/4" from the end of the wire on the left side...about the depth of the hole that it sticks in. That piece is not in the hole. :notworthy:

As far as fluid, I now think mine was low. I am guessing about 3/4 of a quart...to a quart would be correct. The piston should always be full of fluid, (no matter which way the lever is moved) as should the hoses always be ful, and the resavoyr(sp) topped up to the fill plug. That might be about 3 cans of brake fluid,

as the manual suggest, or about 3/4 quart. :thumbs:

thought I would add some more pics of the process: this is what it should look like again when I am done. :WRS:

2008_1130PUMPHY-20001.JPG

here is the piston torn apart.

2008_1130PUMPHY-20002.JPG

one more shot showing the "o" rings

2008_1130PUMPHY-20003.JPG

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getting ready to rebuild my hy2,is a complete kit available along with a spring?,Rick

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There is a supplement not a revision (my mistake). There was also a document I found (which I can't seem to find now :notworthy: ) that explained the changes. One problem was the original spring braking. The fix was to install two roll pins and use a newly designed spring seen below. Also the hoses were changed. They either went from all rubber to rubber and metal tubing or visa versa. I am trying to track the document down. It gave the instructions on the spring fix parts etc.

Attached Image

post-4-1259525950.jpg

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Hey everybody let's all go to spring class 101 (Indy style)

The pic of jason's spring was a replacement for hein Warner

the spring in steve's pump is the original spring from hein Warner

the spring in TT's post is for the later model hy-3 pump. That is when they re-designed

the spring,the cap in the canister and the o-rings on the spool valve and the way the handle attached to the spool valve and the spool valve were the spring attached

I hope this somewhat clears the "spring" thing up

other than that I have the re-build kit for the hy-2 (no springs)

or the hy-3 and springs.

The pumps hold 1 quart of hydraulic fluid

(sorry if I'm rambling on I just woke up)!!

Indy

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I passed your class Indy. :thumbs: I had a feeling that is what was going on here.

Rick...I am going to hook up with Indy tomorrow on the parts issue. You con buy most things at the hardware store...before this thread is over...a list of what is out there will be posted. I see no reson why we can't bend our own springs. I just went to ACE hardware...and they had 3 foot pieces of 3/32" steel rod...2 to a pkg...for under $5.00 That should make about 6 springs. If I do a nice job on this I can mail out a few of them to those in need. You to Fireman. I appreciate the help :notworthy:

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I just went to ACE hardware...and they had 3 foot pieces of 3/32" steel rod...2 to a pkg...for under $5.00 That should make about 6 springs.

If it's the same steel that my local Ace carries, it's just plain cold-rolled steel and it can't be used to make springs for anything.

You'll have to use music wire as stated above.

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The pic of jason's spring was a replacement for hein Warner

the spring in steve's pump is the original spring from hein Warner

The pumps hold 1 quart of hydraulic fluid

I think you have that backwards Indy. :notworthy: The single loop style was the one more prone to breaking. That's the style I had in mine and the pump showed no signs of having been opened in the past.

Thanks for the capacity! Although I seem to recall mine holding more like three pints, which would be a quart and a half. The instructions say to add the three cans of fluid. They look to be about a pint per can.

Steve, I've seen you mention brake fluid a couple of times.

I would be VERY reluctant to put brake fluid in one of these. Brake fluid is highly corrosive and would more than likely eat up the insides of your pump.

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Hey Jim thanks for correcting my mistake. I was still asleep and trying to think. I did get steve's and jason's names backwards. Sorry for the confusion. Have some excellent news for Steve

(by the way my ear is still numb)lol I just got back from town with o-rings and backer rings

and the oil seals should be here Friday. So Steve you might get to plow snow with the 702!!

Indy :thumbs: :notworthy:

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OK...update: Got the roll pin out of the PU-101 spool...this holds the spring in place...it is a 1/8 by 1 1/2 roll pin...ACE goes to 1" in length...will check Tractor Supply. Need 1 1/2 length.

PM'ed TT about the music wire from K&S here in Chicago that I bought at ACE...issues forth-comming. The wire that I bought at ACE was made by K&S and is called music wire...trying to determine if it is the same stuff in the Web site.

INDY...that is great news...you did better then I did. :notworthy: Yea, I think we spent 3 hours on the phone this morning...enjoyed every minute.

Linen, Jim, when you bent your spring was it the old style with one hooby-dooby,

or the newer style with 2 hooby-dooby's? :WRS: Don't know what else to call them bends. (edit) just reread the thread and noticed you made the original springs... :banghead: the piees are comming together. :)

And finally...stopped at my TORO dealer, who called the Toro dealer in Rockford, Ill. who had a WheelHorse dealership since the beginning. (Lincoln Rental)...he said use Type-A hyd fluid in the unit. ATF may be OK, but it may leak a little.

So Type-A is the fluid...looking at a quart plus. :banghead:

Quite the thread going on here...anybody following this...if you have all the pieces...you can rebuild an HY-2 in about the same time that it takes to read this thread. :banghead: ..this thread is really about finding what is available...what sizes of rings and washers are really needed...where you can find it...and how to make what is not out there anymore. :thumbs: :thumbs2:

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it is a 1/8 by 1 1/2 roll pin...ACE goes to 1" in length Need 1 1/2 length.

The wire that I bought at ACE was made by K&S and is called music wire...trying to determine if it is the same stuff in the Web site.

Linen, Jim, when you bent your spring was it the old style with one hooby-dooby,

or the newer style with 2 hooby-dooby's? :notworthy: Don't know what else to call them bends. (edit) just reread the thread and noticed you made the original springs... :WRS: the piees are comming together. :thumbs:

you can rebuild an HY-2 in about the same time that it takes to read this thread.

Check your local Lowes :banghead: for the roll pin. I've found them there.

Music wire is hard tempered. If you can cut it with wire cutting pliers and not damage the plier jaws, the wire is too soft. I think the wire I used was K&S brand. Most hobby shops carry it for use by the RC crowd.

My spring is the old, one hooby dooby type. I copied it as closely as I could. If I had known about the newer, two hooby dooby style I would have tried that. If I ever get around to restoring my 702 I may try that style then. I also realized that I left out a step in bending mine. I didn't mention how I bent the two half circle loops. I used a brake tubing bender that just happened to have the right size mandrel/die for those two bends, after making the square bends, and before making the two tighter loops.

Yes, rebuilding one of these doesn't take too long, but you can probably read this thread in less than the hour it takes to bake the bending stresses out of your new spring. :)

I've used my 702 for a LOT of dirt digging and snow plowing. The HY-2 makes it so much easier and a bunch of fun.

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Steve this thread is pretty long. It covers (I think) 6 states andabout drains my battery in my I phone loading it up (lol)but on the serious side of this thread is the info I contains. Good luck to anybody rebuilding a hy-2 or hy-3 !!! The Info is in the thread. And I have the kits to do it

Indy

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Not done adding to the thread yet...here is a couple of tricks I figured out that are not in the manual: first, there is a 3/32 hole where the ice pick is inserted that is for tapping out the B-44 seal ref# 48. This is the seal behind the pulley.

2008_1203PUMPHY-20001.JPG

Second...there are 3 washers on the piston...an "O" Ring size ARP-568-218...sandwiched between what appears to be 2 leather backing washers. I was careful to remove the backing washers as I did not replace them and have no idea where to find these. When I put them back on they did not seat very well...the answer was to roll the piston on a surface, like a rolling pin, they then seated very easily.

2008_1203PUMPHY-20002.JPG

Indy...does this mean you have become a vendor? :notworthy: Good for you. :thumbs:

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Steve, As ya know from the phone call earlier today

THE PARTS R ON THE WAY!!!!there in the hands of

the USPS!! You should get them fri. or sat. Enjoy

Indy

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want to update and finish the rebuild....

this shows the spring from "Norm's Toys" and the O-Ring and backupwasher that go on the spool drive.

2008_1218HY-20001.JPG2008_1218HY-20002.JPG

had to carefully trim the length of the spring to fit in the spool-drive and the holes in the face casting. Used a cutter/grinder. Took a few times of trimming to make it fit correctly. Took off close to 3/8".

2008_1130PUMPHY-20004.JPG

 

shows the gears in place and ready for the cover.

2008_1218HY-20004.JPG

shows back together and ready for the canister.

2008_1218HY-20005.JPG

After some confusion on the right oil to use...I picked this on from TSC...It is a Type A hydraulic

back on the 702 and painted.

2008_1218HY-20003.JPG

a couple of pics showing how the bracket has been modified to fascilitate the "attach-o-matic"...which is welded and bolted together with this bracket...plus the actual mount for the cylinder has been modified.

2008_1218HY-20006.JPG

2008_1218HY-20007.JPG

2008_1220HY-20001.JPG

2008_1220HY-20002.JPG

There is a ton of information in this thread, and it is a result of the collection of the knowledge of the members of RS. Special thanks to Indy, TT, Linen Beige, Lord Hellmutt, for their part in helping me and pointing me in the right direction.

Now I can put the blade on the 702, wait for snow, post a vedio and really enjow the rest of the winter. :thumbs::notworthy:

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