xi series

[WHwest8597 85]

What made Toro produce the xi series? Was this a major blunder that cause toro to quit producing garden tractors?

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,337]

If you're talking about the 500xi series, Toro probably wanted to produce a tractor similar to JDs 4x5 series, or Cub Cadet Super Garden Tractor Series or Simplicity's Landlords. Also, to keep up with the competitor's more refined designs, Toro probably thought they had to produce the vertical shaft tractors, like the 260 series or the 400xi series. What Toro's mistake was not upgrading the Classic series to be more refined, but yet keeping the simplicity and robustness of the tractor, and then killing the Classic line, and then contracting MTD to make water-down tractors to match the other MTDs, the Craftsmans, etc. Just my honest opinion rather if it's right or not. :notworthy:

[WHwest8597 85]

Any truth that the Pennsylvania dealers met with Toro about the xi series, but they didn't really listen to what the dealers had to say?

Toro should have continued to make the Classic series for those with 2 or less acres that needed a snow blade, snow blower and maybe a tiller.

They then could have expanded into the sub compact line.

[Rideawaysenior 25]

Toro was a contributor in the demise of the Wheel Horse line but not entirley. The Xi Series was created to compete with the other market brands that were being developed. The 500xi Series was a good match for what was out there and was considerably less in cost. Toro knew that producing so many garden tractors along the classic line and up to and including the 500xi series was not a venture that would make them money especially with the throw away attitude of today's buying market. People were looking for something cheap that when it broke, you just replaced it with something new hence the big box stores and MTD.

Several of the dealers that were on the advisory committee made mention to Toro that buyers were looking and leaning towards the higher horse power automatics which at the time, the 416-H was a good market runner. Toro against the advice decided in what ever year ( i just don't recall) decided that the 315-8 would be the only Classic produced until 2006 when they would discontinue the line all together.

I remember that this machine when equipped with a 42" deck was pretty reasonable. I bought a Craftsman GT5000 in 2004 that cost right around $3,500. I'm almost certain that the 416-H was closer to $4,000 but not too much more with a deck. This machine was dumped in 1997 all together and was replaced with only a manual transmission on the Classic line. The 500Xi carried on until 2001 when it too was taken off the market.

The modern homeowner and buyer was infatuated with high HP and convenience features such as automatic transmissions which the big box stores could provide and manufactureres such as AYP and MTD could produce. The Classic design remained unchanged until it was discontinued. So, to place blame on this is really a difficult task. Sure Toro had a good thing and could have marketed it better but people of today with the exception of those in this forum and a few other places don't want to bother with fixing something when it breaks. The concept of buying a machine that will last you 30 some odd years as these very tractors we own was lost somewhere along the way. I'm a Craftsman tractor owner but my redemption is in the fact that it only is used when my nephew comes by and wants to drive a tractor. It's the only one that I have where he doesn't have to reach a pedal.

Who really can speculate though. You see manufacturers such as Simplicity, Ingerson and John Deere still pumping out a semi quality product but at the same point you are really paying for it too. Wheel Horse really had something special. They were very well built and very easy to maintain. This is something not found with the machines of today.

[wh500special 2,053]

What made Toro produce the xi series? Was this a major blunder that cause toro to quit producing garden tractors?

I'm not sure it was a blunder. If you ever have the opportunity to use a 5xi for a while you should find that it is far more comfortable to use in every way than probably anything Toro/WH or WH built before it. They are l-o-n-g suckers and ride very smoothly. They have an incredibly tight turning radius. They have a nicely executed foot control hydrostatic transmission. Two speed rear end. Power steering was available. Bright headlamps. Available side work lights. Cruise control...

They are fantastic machines and competed squarely against the Deere 300/GX series and were priced similarly.

What they lacked was something almost everything that was labelled as a WH lacked: a cheap price tag. I have a decnt number of price lists from the 60's, 70's, and 80's and am amazed at how expensive WH's always were. The most recent Classic was probably one of the best values of the last 20 years when you adjust prices for inflation.

And, of course, they (5xi) were such a leap forward in design the older implements for the classic tractors do not mate to them.

I think they were a victim of the times. In the last couple of decades the typical customer with a large lawn migrated from using a heavy duty, ground engaging capable, tractor into the large lawn mower (big LT or Zero Turn) market. Or they had their grass cut by a service. We might see some shift back to the serious DIY'er days of the 60's, but it will likely not reach the same levels as back then.

In light of what the competition was offering, I think it is a miracle that Toro kept the Classic series around as long as they did. Sure the design was as reliable - and as old - as a rock, but the day of the do-anything GT is largely over. If the primary chore for a $4500 machine is to cut grass, why invest in something with a manual transmission and a wide turning radius as well as a transmission "hump" to climb over when you could buy something more nimble, fancier, or faster.

I'm thankful that Toro did keep the classic around, but not surprised they held the feature content back from the glory days of the 520H. There had to be something - superficial perhaps - to distinguish them from their bigger (5xi) and smaller (260, 400XT) brethren.

I'm sure if we members of RS had been buying the classic in sufficient numbers they would still be making them, but the fact is that they were slow sellers in recent years.

If you get a chance to operate an xi you should give it a whirl. They are fantastic machines. BIG kudos to Toro for creating them.

Steve

[rickv1957 70]

I had a chance to buy a 523 with the diesel but loved my 520h that was still near new at that time,Rick

[W9JAB 156]

:thumbs:

Ya know it's just like when I look

at a "57 panhead (motor-sickel)

I like the old "Fly-by-the-seat-of-your pants"

no OSHA stuff (the word crap deleted) No

extra stuff in get in the way of doing the job.

But Mr. Homeown is not willing to learn to press

in the clutch, BEFOR ya shift gears.

:notworthy:

[travisg84 1]

I think wheelhorse killed itself by making a product so simple and so rugged. For the most part the average homeowner with a tool box can keep a horse running forever. They get handed down to the next generation of homeowners because then won't die, so why would you go spend 3 or 4 thousand on a new machine when the old ones are still around kicking. If they died after a season or two like most brands you would have more people buying but if you buy a horse and treat it right you might as well be written off for ever "needing" to buy a new tractor. That is just my thoughts :notworthy: