C195 Engine trouble

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

While my wife was cutting the grass yesterday on the 1984 C195 Twin Auto, she said it started missing and wouldn't go up the hill. She was able to nurse it to finish the section that she was doing and got it in the garage. I got home from work and started it. I immediately said to her, it is only running on one cylinder. I pulled both plugs and checked for spark. Both have spark. I reinstalled them and started it. I pulled the front plug wire while running and it shut off. I plugged that one back in. Started it again and pulled the back plug wire while running. It kept running the same.

Now, that being said, I doubt it is carb related because one cylinder is running fine. I also doubt it is ignition related because there is spark. I put points and a condenser in it two years ago when it wouldn't run right. The was a different kind of missing then. That cured the problem then and it has been fine since. I didn't get to check the compression yet. I am leaning toward the following:

-broken valve spring

-carbon holding a valve open

-burned valve. (I think it would have to be pretty bad though and would have shown up through other symptoms first)

Any ideas out there?

Thanks,

Jamie

[canam1991 2]

stick your finger in the plug hole in the bad cylinder and crank the motor over and see if it blows your finger out

[htopjimmy26 3]

Or stick a wooden dowel or other non-marking rod in the bad hole if you have a straight shot to the piston, and bar the engine over an see if the piston moves through its normal stroke. Good luck :scratchead:

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

I will try these. I don't think it chucked a rod though. It is too quiet. I am going to check the compression tomorrow. Either way, this doesn't seem like it is going to be a quick fix. I guess that means I will be using the '82 C195 to finish.

I really don't want to do that. Both tractors have the 60" deck on them. That tractor is way too clean and original to use.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

[d180man 5]

Hi and it would be best to check the compression with a compression gauge but sticking your finger in the plug hole in the bad cylinder and cranking the motor over will work good luck with it! we have got engines in that had broke a rod and had no noices in them ! or it cold be a valve stuck open! :ychain:

[bitten 133]

If everything else seems to be fine, try taking the coil off of the 82' and putting it on the 84'. I know it is getting spark, but I had a similier situation with my D200 and that is what cured it for me.

Good Luck and

P.J.

[pfrederi 17,145]

Make sure that the intake manifold gasket on the dead side is in good shape. May be sucking in extra air...

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

O.K. I will be checking the compression tonight. I will also check the intake gasket. Depending on what the compression tester says, I guess I will the head and see what I see. I have two KT19 parts engines, so if I need parts, can rob them. Thanks all and I will let you know what I find. :scratchead:

[Hodge71 663]

Just a little info on compression on your KT19 there fella, ya dont want your compression to be lower that 90 psi on either cylinder, Ya also dont want there to be more than 15% differential between both cylinders, Im kinda leanin towards a valve seat issue being that it happened so quickly. At least ya got 2 spares in the basement on a shelf . If ya need help, ya know my number, call, ya dork. I'd say somethin about my Onan but i know they have valve seat issues already, so no need to jinx meself. :hide:

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

Thanks for the offer Dork! Anytime you want to hook up the 416-H to the C-195, I'm ready! Of course after this problem is fixed. I'll just lift the 3 point hitch and lift your tractor off the ground.... I'll keep you posted.

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

O.K. Update:

Checked compression in both cylinders:

Front: 106 lbs

Rear (problem cylinder): 110 lbs.

While running, sprayed carb cleaner around intake to jug seam. Nothing happened. So, I doubt there is a problem there...

Rear plug wire good. (it shocked me) rear plug good.

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks,

Jamie

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

You have good spark, and good compression. Fuel should be okay since it's getting to the front cyl. Only thing I can think of then is exhaust? Check to see if the exhaust valve is opening (take out the plugs use compressed air and turn over the engine by hand until you hear the air coming out the exhaust), or maybe plugged exhaust of some sort? Just my arm chair guess?

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

I'll give that a shot tomorrow then. Thanks for the advice.

Jamie

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

O.K.

Here is an update:

I have swapped the coil and plug wires from the 1982 that runs fine. I removed the exhaust pipe and checked. There are no obstructions and I am definitely evacuating the rear cylinder on the exhaust stroke. I can see the exhaust valve is opening because I took off the breather cover and removed the rubber flapper. I could see the exhaust valve opening and closing as I cranked the engine. The spring looks fine and all appears to be working. I also swapped the spark plug in that cylinder from the 1982 and it still won't fire the rear cylinder.

What is going on here.... :scratchead:

[jdog_kustoms 82]

is the intake valve working ????

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

Absolutely has to be. With the exhaust pipe off and cranking you can see the air/fuel charge leaving the cylinder. All the components are there, it just seems like for some reason there is an issue firing. I guess at this point, I will change the points and condenser. These are the last two things that could possibly be affecting anything. I'll be back after I get them ordered and installed.

Just for some extra reassurance, I ran the '82 yesterday with the coil, wires and plugs from the '84 and it ran fine. So, I am sure that these are not malfunctioning.

Thanks,

Jamie

[M550 4]

Hi. Had something similar in the past. I resolved the problem by replacing the spark plug . It might be looking good but not enough "power" to light the fuel mixture.

Cheap test since you have access to spare on the other engines.

My 2 pence.

Didier

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

Thanks for the input... However, I already changed them out with the ones from the '82 and it didn't help. In addition, I ran the '82 with the coil, plugs and wires from the '84(engine with the problem) and the tractor runs perfectly.

At this point, I am awaiting, points and a condenser.

Thanks,

Jamie

[jdog_kustoms 82]

if the intake is stuck open it will still suck gas a nd air in but spit it back out the intake and exhuast

[canam1991 2]

it would not have any compression if the valve was open. this is a tough one with out seeing it in person :scratchead:

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

This IS a tough one.... and I AM seeing it in person.

I just keep watching the grass get taller and listen to my wife get madder... Using the '82 isn't an option. The thing is CHERRY and spotless. There is no way I am getting that dirty... She can't seem to understand that...

:scratchead:

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

I have no idea how this engine works, but I'll just throw this out. On my 2005 Hemi Durango, each cylinder would actually fire the spark plugs twice. Once for ignition and the second time during exhaust to burn remaining fuel.

Does this engine do something similar? If so, perhaps it's not firing for ignition, and just during exhaust?

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

They run much like a V Twin Harley. There is one coil with two outputs. Each plug is fired at the same time. Due to cam timing, there is a fuel / air charge in one cylinder and nothing in the other one. Obviously, the cylinder with the fuel / air charge fires, the other doesn't. The timing is governed by the points gap. This part is different as a Harley has a distributor.

Jamie

[Mr.FourSpeed 0]

:ychain:

ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! Well, I finally fixed the old girl. It was the points and condenser. AGAIN! I am assuming that the condenser failed because the points were starting to transfer from one to the other. The kohler service manual states this. Anyway, It finally runs again. I tried cutting with it and it runs fine. With how much rain we have had this summer, this cutting should be a workout because it has been two weeks for most of the grass and three weeks from the rest. Hopefully no other issues from here forward...

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO WEIGHED IN ON THE PROBLEM.

Jamie

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,120]

Glad you got your tractor back!