Introducing the Stig Special

[Raider10 3]

:woohoo: Lookin good!

[Stigian 1,234]

That is great!!! I know how you must feel to know for sure it is gonna work, just need to work out the details...

Thanks Carl, yep today felt good knowing that the steering will work in the end.

Still a few tweaks needed as my temporary cylinder bracket linkage thingys tended to move even though they were clamped to the chassis as tight as possible!!

Might of bent a few bolts too!!

top stuff.... hurry up with the vid

Don't get too exited Andy, I didn't get too far out the garden due to slipping drive belts, but it's a start

Whoop Whoop!!!now the vid please

All good things come to he who waits Glasshopper.

I think it may of been a tad hot as it branded the lawn!!

Why didn't you reach out and catch it!

Think I was too busy with the cramp in my hip at the time.. Longer arms would of helped with the catching too

Were not quite "out of the woods" with this steering malarky yet Guy's, the slipping drive belts (it's always the rear pair) are causing non tire slipping problems, so I need to sort that before complete success..

This where I keep thinking about making rubber tracks.. Kinda the ultimate drive belts Any thoughts on if they would work and help out the steering/traction?

Lookin good!

Thank you Sir.

[roscoemi 245]

Depending on where the pivot point is along the length of the of the tractor, the tires on the side you are braking with are going to want to rotate at different speeds. If you brake with the middle tires, that should cut power to that side (I'm not real familiar with hydro's) and put the pivot point in the middle of the driveline and tractor. But all three axles are tied together by belts at a fixed speed and the rear tire driven off the differential will be fighting the middle braking axle thru the belt. If I remember right, military 6x6's have 3 diferentials for a center disconnect on each allowing for different wheel speeds, and the front and rear axles have steering capibilities. Track machines are rear driven and slide sideways much easier due to less ground pressure per square inch than tires. The member with the awesome track machine may have a better insight on this. :eusa-think:

[bowtiebutler956 649]

That's AWESOME news Lan!!!

Matt :flags-texas:

[312Hydro 473]

I have a suggestion and I'm glad to be sitting across "the pond' as I mention it. Why not put a caliper and disc on each wheel? I know you want to reach out and throttle me for all the work and upgrade again to the master cylinder,but they would all start and stop at the same time once you work out the belt issue.Remember. it's just a thought...... Or maybe put one caliper and disc on the front and one on the back?Four total. Leave the middle open?

[Herbl 10]

After reading a lot about the brake system and how much and how many disc brakes we need I have a thought that is out of the box. Maybe the solution isn't toapply brakes to the side you want to turn but to loosen the belt drive on that side. Have the same type of lever but hooked up to an idler pulley and it raises and lowers the tension on the drive side you want to turn, it's just a thought since we keep building bigger and better brake systems, I thought maybe there could be a different way of getting the same result. Just a thought...

Herb

[Stigian 1,234]

Depending on where the pivot point is along the length of the of the tractor, the tires on the side you are braking with are going to want to rotate at different speeds. If you brake with the middle tires, that should cut power to that side (I'm not real familiar with hydro's) and put the pivot point in the middle of the driveline and tractor. But all three axles are tied together by belts at a fixed speed and the rear tire driven off the differential will be fighting the middle braking axle thru the belt. If I remember right, military 6x6's have 3 diferentials for a center disconnect on each allowing for different wheel speeds, and the front and rear axles have steering capibilities. Track machines are rear driven and slide sideways much easier due to less ground pressure per square inch than tires. The member with the awesome track machine may have a better insight on this.

HI Rosco, I'm trying to get it to pivot on the middle wheels by over inflating them and under inflating the front and rears, it does seem to help a bit (Thank you Andy for that idea).

Tracks you say... I have been thinking on rubber tracks (I've not enough time to make steel tracks before the Ardingly show) for a while now but have been waiting for a bit of feedback from you guy's about it.

Will rubber tracks work as well as steel?

That's AWESOME news Lan!!!

Matt

Thanks Latt!!

I have a suggestion and I'm glad to be sitting across "the pond' as I mention it. Why not put a caliper and disc on each wheel? I know you want to reach out and throttle me for all the work and upgrade again to the master cylinder,but they would all start and stop at the same time once you work out the belt issue.Remember. it's just a thought...... Or maybe put one caliper and disc on the front and one on the back?Four total. Leave the middle open?

Good job you are the other side of the pond for suggesting that Rich

Once I had read your post this morning I did have a look to see if it was possible to fit discs on the other axles, but space inside the wheels just isn't there.

Longer axles would help but I couldn't fit them on my lathe!

After reading a lot about the brake system and how much and how many disc brakes we need I have a thought that is out of the box. Maybe the solution isn't to apply brakes to the side you want to turn but to loosen the belt drive on that side. Have the same type of lever but hooked up to an idler pulley and it raises and lowers the tension on the drive side you want to turn, it's just a thought since we keep building bigger and better brake systems, I thought maybe there could be a different way of getting the same result. Just a thought...

Herb

Hey Herb, you certainly do think out the box, or is it looking at the problem from the other end

The only problem I can see with your idea is if both wheel to wheel belts on the same side are slackened the the diff will take the easy way out and start spinning the rear wheel on that side. It's kinda like the drive belt slipping problem I have at the moment!

As for "bigger and better brakes".. You ain't seen nothing yet :D

[Stigian 1,234]

It would seem there was a lot of rain overnight!! I didn't know anything about it until my Wife phoned me to say she couldn't get onto the lane and there is not enough space to turn the car around!!

Yep I guess it rained a bit

I remember the days when the farmers found the time to clear out their ditches!!

In case your wondering I drove the car (diesel) through the water fine and was then left to wade back through the flood and find my way home! Women eh

Back at the shack it was play with brakes a bit more time..

Hmm, I guess this lever got a bit bent during yesterdays test driving!

Construction time.. Can you spot the slight mistake?

I'm feeling very knackered and quite rough, so I'm going to keep this short and sweet..

Lady's and Gent's, I introduce the "Stig Double pumper"

Both cylinders relaxed.

Both cylinders at full compression..

Installed..

As both cylinders work off the same lever I had to bleed them both at the same time.

Once the system was bleed..

The steering lever in it's relaxed position.

And the brakes full on!! The lever went very hard with little travel.. How they should be

Oh, sorry for the lack of video yet, the Hard drive on my pc decided it didn't want to let me have access to the footage!!

Getting it sorted now though, so it won't be long, but it won't be going on MooTube tonight.

Sorry Guy's.

[Anglo Traction 759]

All that water is a Figment of your imagination Ian, we're in a drought situation. Whatever you do , don't use a Hosepipe !.

So you have about a 3/8" of Piston travel as a guess from the pics and the lever doesn't pass the 90 deg point either ?.....Really hope it works for you

[roscoemi 245]

Howdy Ian. By playing with the tire pressures you created both lateral and front to back pivot points at the center of the machine. Small contact patch with lot's of pressure in the middle and large contact points with less ground pressure at the ends. If you have brakes on the center wheels only, this is exploited and helps your problem. If the fronts are not connected by the belts, they are free to slide/turn as they wish. The same could be said for the rears except they are the source of the drive.

I believe rubber tracks would work as well as steel, our skid steer tractors use them. Some snowmobiles use 1 7/8" lug tracks that will seperate your head from your shoulders with a bit of power driving them. Studs are optional! The drive may need to be re-engineered to connect to them, ie more lathe time. I guess the question becomes 'how well do you want to steer'? Pivot in place or swooping turns? :confusion-confused:

[COMMANDO6 20]

Construction time.. Can you spot the slight mistake?

Don't you just hate when that happens!

[bowtiebutler956 649]

Construction time.. Can you spot the slight mistake?

Don't you just hate when that happens!

Been there, Done that!

Matt :flags-texas:

[AMC RULES 36,945]

:eusa-doh: OMG! That is funny. :bow-blue:

[smoreau 658]

I run into that issue with gear wrenches, back the nut off in a tight spot and you can't get the wrench out ether cut the wrench or the bolt. At least if you need to take it back apart, you don't have to find the correct wrench :ychain:

[Stigian 1,234]

All that water is a Figment of your imagination Ian, we're in a drought situation. Whatever you do , don't use a Hosepipe !.

So you have about a 3/8" of Piston travel as a guess from the pics and the lever doesn't pass the 90 deg point either ?.....Really hope it works for you

Evening Richard, I did think about trying to siphon the water uphill to my house using a hose pipe, but it would of been as much work as trying to navigate a .Gov.uk/waste of space website

Maybe a tad more the 3/8" travel, and nope the lever doesn't pass the 90 deg point.. It won't reach even that now as you will see from a few photo's!!

Howdy Ian. By playing with the tire pressures you created both lateral and front to back pivot points at the center of the machine. Small contact patch with lot's of pressure in the middle and large contact points with less ground pressure at the ends. If you have brakes on the center wheels only, this is exploited and helps your problem. If the fronts are not connected by the belts, they are free to slide/turn as they wish. The same could be said for the rears except they are the source of the drive.

I believe rubber tracks would work as well as steel, our skid steer tractors use them. Some snowmobiles use 1 7/8" lug tracks that will seperate your head from your shoulders with a bit of power driving them. Studs are optional! The drive may need to be re-engineered to connect to them, ie more lathe time. I guess the question becomes 'how well do you want to steer'? Pivot in place or swooping turns?

Howdo Rosco, I keep thinking about the tires and weather it would be worth fitting a pair of bigger middle tires.. I had a measure and only have the space for 24" tires, only an inch bigger than standard. Not sure if that's enough to create the "pivot point"?

I did have a quick play today to see if I could fit discs on the middle axles.. It might just be possible!!

I was thinking of making the rubber tracks from tires, they would fit over the er... tires.

Being able to turn the beast almost on the spot would be nice, but I'd settle for not having to do a 16 point turn to get the thing facing the opposite direction!

Construction time.. Can you spot the slight mistake?

Don't you just hate when that happens!

Been there, Done that!

Matt

It's good to know I'm not the only one who does it

Having treated the left side of the 6X6 to the "Stig double pumper", I thought the right side should try something new..

Was this what you were thinking of Andy?

I know the brake lever needs to be pulled from it's outer edge to gain the most pressure, but as I was keen for a drive I squeezed it in any way I could.

Did the new brakes work?

Your have to wait for the video to find out....

The reason the vid hasn't made it up on MooTube yet?? I added some bonus material this afternoon of the beast running "Ratchet tracks"

These were fitted to eliminate the belt slipping problem, just to see if tracks would work..

They are not wide enough to act like tracks, but they sure got rid of the belt slip

Even though the "Double Pumper" was made to have some reasonable strength (for a prototype that looks like it's made from Mecanno), it did suffer from the bends!

I feel a stronger and smaller Mk2 Double Pumper coming soon :)

[AMC RULES 36,945]

The new vid...is it soup yet Ian? :scratchead:

[Stigian 1,234]

Er... "in soup" Craig? Tomato or mushroom?

Here it is Guy's, Video part 29 with a better sounding muffler/exhaust and extra bonus footage at the end.

Enjoy

[neil 2,398]

Superb Ian

great to see it turning and it sounds like a cheiftan tank

cant wait to see it at bthe show.

[Stigian 1,234]

Thanks Neil, yeah she sure sounds better with the exhaust from the 312.. Think it might have to stay on the 6x6 for while :D

[littleredrider 408]

It does sound good with that muffler on there!!! I've followed along on your build, it's amazing what you come up with. I'd think you'd be dangerous in a well equipped shop!!!

After watching the latest video, it looks like every time you try the brakes, it looks like it slows down, but not because of the brakes. Is the motion lever moving, going to neutral?

After driving it around for a bit, are the brake rotors hot? It kinda seems to be that the brakes just aren't holding it. I imagine that thing weighs over a 1000 pounds, and stopping/slowing is more than the system can handle.

One last thing, are the belts slipping for the drive wheels? Maybe the brakes are working, just the belt is slipping...

Hope this made sense, just woke up and only 1/4 up of coffee....But none the less, (quoting my mother since it is Mother's Day) fantabulous build!!! :)

[smoreau 658]

Ian, Do you think you could come up with a gear reduction for the turning brakes like this? I think you could get a lot more turning power with the power of gear reduction. I know it means changing a lot of what you already have built, but I think it would do what you want it to do. Just my thought.

[AMC RULES 36,945]

I couldn't agree with Neil's Chieftain comparison more.

The Beast definitely sounds like it means ill intent now...especially when it's spitting hot exhaust all over the yard. WAIT...don't touch that yet.

That smile at the end was priceless Ian, good to see you at the stage where you're having some fun with it now.

Looks like it'll be pretty much unstoppable, once the bugs are worked out of it...getting better everyday buddy. :bow-blue:

[jachady 130]

Hey Stigian, You've put a ton of work into this and it's awesome that you are getting it close to doing what you want. I have read your post since the beginning and being a backyard mechanic/fabricator myself have been trying to come up with ideas that would help. The only thing I can come up with at this moment would be a ton of work. What about ditching the braking idea and adding a second transmission. Each trans would drive only one side of the wheels, then you could use the motion control and actually have the wheels on the inside of the turn going backwards. Kind of like a Bobcat. I would think there is enough room under that beast for another trans, but how to engineer it, I have no clue. The videos are great but its hard to help from over the pond.

Good Luck - John

[Stigian 1,234]

It does sound good with that muffler on there!!! I've followed along on your build, it's amazing what you come up with. I'd think you'd be dangerous in a well equipped shop!!!

After watching the latest video, it looks like every time you try the brakes, it looks like it slows down, but not because of the brakes. Is the motion lever moving, going to neutral?

After driving it around for a bit, are the brake rotors hot? It kinda seems to be that the brakes just aren't holding it. I imagine that thing weighs over a 1000 pounds, and stopping/slowing is more than the system can handle.

One last thing, are the belts slipping for the drive wheels? Maybe the brakes are working, just the belt is slipping...

Hope this made sense, just woke up and only 1/4 up of coffee....But none the less, (quoting my mother since it is Mother's Day) fantabulous build!!!

Hi Littleredrider, yep I like the new muffler too... In fact I think it might well be staying on the 6X6 with a few modifications.

Thanks for following my build, it must of given you quite a bit of reading over the years.

"I'd think you'd be dangerous in a well equipped shop".. Lol, thanks, I quite like that line

Well spotted about the motion lever.. Yes it does like to to head for neutral for some reason.. It's a bit like hitting the foot brake on a hydro only without the violent stopping..

I guess the trans "thinks" I'm hitting the brakes?

The brake rotors only get slightly warm.

Yep the rear "wheel to middle wheel belts were slipping a bit, until I added the ratchet tracks.

Ian, Do you think you could come up with a gear reduction for the turning brakes like this? I think you could get a lot more turning power with the power of gear reduction. I know it means changing a lot of what you already have built, but I think it would do what you want it to do. Just my thought.

Thanks for the diagram Scott.

The problem I have is a lack of space to move the discs.. Maybe if I swapped them for Wh trans brake drums and brake bands......

I couldn't agree with Neil's Chieftain comparison more...really does sound like it means business now.

That smile at the end was priceless Ian, good to see you're at the stage where you're having some fun with it now.

Looks like it'll be pretty much unstoppable, once the bugs are worked out of it...getting better everyday buddy.

Hey Craig, yep it was nice to have some fun driving it for a change rather than just checking how the steering brakes were/were not working.

"Unstoppable"... I certainly would not want to get in the way of it when it's going full tilt.

Hey Stigian, You've put a ton of work into this and it's awesome that you are getting it close to doing what you want. I have read your post since the beginning and being a backyard mechanic/fabricator myself have been trying to come up with ideas that would help. The only thing I can come up with at this moment would be a ton of work. What about ditching the braking idea and adding a second transmission. Each trans would drive only one side of the wheels, then you could use the motion control and actually have the wheels on the inside of the turn going backwards. Kind of like a Bobcat. I would think there is enough room under that beast for another trans, but how to engineer it, I have no clue. The videos are great but its hard to help from over the pond.

Good Luck - John

Hi John, I only have one thing to say about your "two trans" idea.......... You Sir are a Genius

Once I'd read your idea I sat thinking about it few a few min's before rushing out to the shack to have a look and a measure.

As luck would have it I have another Eaton trans sitting under the bench. I also have it's motion lever and linkage.

If I move the projects engine back a bit there should be enough space up front for the second trans to live.

And if I've got it right in my head (I hope so) I would only have to do minimal lathe work to get it all to work. I could use one of my rear axle extension thingys on the front trans as only one would be needed at the back.

The only bit I'm not sure about is, is there enough space to move the engine back enough to clear the dipstick on the front trans.

The only problem (well not sure it's a problem) I can see is by "lock off" one axle on the trans the other axle will spin twice as fast. Which means the machine would "do" over 10mph!

Then again it should be quite stable at speed being a bit wider and longer than a normal Wh, the low center of gravity should help as well..

"its hard to help from over the pond" you say! You've certainly helped today.

Anyone else have any thoughts about John's two trans idea before I start cutting the front of the chassis off tomorrow?

[Stigian 1,234]

Another thought on fitting a second trans...

I would lose a bit of ground clearance at the front because the trans is lower than the chassis, the trans would also stick out a bit from the front..

I guess I could always hide it behind a dozer blade

Another thought is the second trans could supply the hydraulic power to raise and lower the blade thus saving me the cost of buying a hydraulic pump, fluid tank etc..

I'm liking this idea more and more, it's a win situation on so many fronts :D