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dtallon

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dtallon last won the day on July 30 2013

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About dtallon

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  • Birthday January 10

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  • tractors
    854, Lawn Ranger, PP-8 Plow, AC-6 Cultivator, Rear/Mid Cultivator, 40" Mid Grader, Disc
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    854

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    Peoria, IL

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  1. The rims are... Yellow?! Before getting into anything else, I will go ahead and address the question, "why are the rims yellow"? I still don't want to totally reveal my plans because I'm not confident I have the skills to actually pull it off, but for now lets just say I'm going for an industrial look. To go with that industrial look, I picked some 5.70-8 Kenda x-grips for the front. The height was a good match for the 18x6.50-8's that came on the tractor. The Interco's were the biggest tires I have tried to mount myself, and proved to be some of the more challenging ones as well. I'm not sure if they fit different because they are ATV tires, but it took more of an effort than I'm used to to get them onto the rim. I mounted them with tubes because I tend to not have much luck getting beads to seat with my smallish air compressor. As it turns out, the beads didn't want to fully seat with the tubes either. On both tires, and both sides on each tire, I have a similar amount of bead that won't seat fully up to the edge of the rim. I'm hoping that when the weather eventually warms up, the tires will become a little more pliable and will seat the rest of the way. Installing the tires on the tractor was fairly uneventful. Thankfully, the GT-14 hubs came off much easier this time (thank you, never-seize) The 520H hubs went on without too much difficulty as well. The axle key from the GT-14 is actually longer than the 520H hub is, so should provide more strength than the key usually used with those hubs. As expected, installing the hubs an extra inch inward on the axle positioned the tires (mostly) inside the fenders. The tires plumped up a little bit when they were inflated so they are now just a little bigger than the original tires. Seeing the tires all installed on the tractor was a nice boost in motivation to continue with this project. The pace will probably be slower the next couple months with some other, non-tractor activities coming up, but I'm looking forward to the challenge and seeing the results.
  2. With the transmission repairs (knock on wood) behind me, I was ready to move on from that very tedious phase to something a little more fun. It may be putting the cart before the horse, but I wanted to get the tires for this project sorted out. Shortly after I got this tractor 2 years ago, I started looking for some ag lug tires for it. Tires for the GT-14's 15" rims were hard enough to find, and tires in the original 9.50 width were even harder. What ones I did find seemed to come in either 8.50 or 10.50. I eventually settled on the look of the Goodyear Sure Grip tires. They were sort of hard to find, but I stumbled across some on simpletire.com in the 8.50 width for a price that was significantly lower than the few other sources I could find. The price was enough to get me to pull the trigger. Since they tried to cancel the order, I'm pretty sure the price was an error, but when I pushed back they did honor it. A week or so later, they were on my doorstep. Before I got to the point of doing anything with them, as previously mentioned, the project went on hiatus. Fast forward to several weeks ago, when I am once again working on this project and thinking about how I want it to look when it's done. I'm not sure what led me to it, but I stumbled across some ag-lug Interco Interforce ATV tires in a 27" size that would fit on 12" GT rims. I definitely liked the look of the smaller rim and taller sidewall better. Since I already had bought the Goodyear's, I deliberated long and hard about buying a different set, but eventually convinced myself that for the time I was investing into the tractor, it was worth it to get the look I wanted. I waited until I got the transmission back together and proved it would run again before ordering a set in the 27x10-12 size. So, with the backstory out of the way on how I came to have two sets of new rear tires for the GT, on to the fun part, the fit-up. Before getting into the effort to dismount/mount the tires, I decided to take off the stock tires and just set the new ones in place to see how they looked. I found it hard to judge with no rim in the center, so I cut pieces of cardboard to simulate the rim. The Goodyear's actually looked better than I expected. I had recently found some pictures of an MTD 990 with the same tires and thought the tires looked a little small. That still might be the case if I mounted them on the rims, but for the mock up I was pleasantly surprised. Side by side, you can see that the 8.50 width is narrower than the original 9.50's. The Interco's were true to size in width and height. Despite what the tape measure says, to me they looked a little smaller than the original tires. I think it is because even though both are 27" in diameter, the tread makes up a much larger portion of the diameter on the Interco. The smaller rim size may play a part too. Interco does make a 30" size, but I don't think those would have fit without modifying the fenders. Despite looking slightly different than what I expected, I was pleased overall with their appearance and decided to continue down that path. The Interco's presented another small challenge. I had a couple different 12" rims to choose from to use with them, but none with the right backspacing. The stock GT-14 rims are 8" wide rims with nearly neutral backspacing. I had 12" dia, 8" wide Wheel Horse rims, but they all were heavily offset to the inside. I had a set of rims off of a Craftsman GT that were closer, but still had about 1" more offset than I needed. I decided I could probably make that up by mounting the hubs farther in on the axle. I saw on another GT-14 thread a debate about how much strength you loose going from the GT-14 hubs down to the regular hubs for a 12" wheel. The GT-14 hubs are beefier without a doubt, but I have some hubs off of a 520H with dual set screws that should be up to the task of what I will likely use this tractor for.
  3. The GT14 project has continued, albeit at a slower pace due to some pauses waiting for parts, seals and gaskets during the reassembly process. You would think that would leave more time for posting updates, but instead I seem to have been finding other projects to fill the gaps instead. I'm happy to report things are finally all back together and functional. Given the wear on the GT14 pump slippers and plate, I proceeded with the plan to swap in the Charger pump/motor unit. This did require swapping the motor drive gear over from the GT14 unit to the Charger one. Thanks to some of the info on here, it wasn't too difficult to do. While inside the motor to swap the gears, I noticed the difference in the amount of wear was not as obvious between the two units as it was on the pumps. It all went back together fine, just took some care to keep everything clean and put back together the way it came apart. Before putting the pump back together, I went ahead and did a gentle polish of the slippers and port plate. It really didn't take much to get the scratches down to where only a few of the deeper ones were left. Since I used some heat to get the pump fan off the shaft, I went ahead and replaced that shaft seal before putting the fan back on. The transmission case also need some work before it got reassembled. I swapped in a B/C series cast parking brake pawl since both the Charger and GT14 ones were severely worn. The intermediate shaft bearings needed to be replaced on both sides, and since the gasket between the two halves is NLA, I had to make one of those. I cleaned out the good inlet screen from the Charger and installed it. For mounting the pump/motor back on the transmission, I probably could have made that gasket as well, but opted to get one from my Toro dealer. I have started a habit of tracing any gasket I get before I put it on, just in case I need another one someday and they aren't available anymore. After getting the trans back together and bolted back to the chassis, I still had some work to do. I had swapped the acceleration valves to try them in the GT14 before, so I needed to swap all those pieces back. By now I had plenty of practice with those parts. Since the Charger was manual lift, I also had to swap over the hydraulic lift spring and valve, and remove the plugs from the ports before I could hook up the lines. Finally, it was time to refill with ATF. I took a long time filling a little bit and then spinning the pump by hand to try to work the air out of the system. Eventually I got nearly all 5 quarts into it. After a few days passed, I was happy not to see any little puddles of oil underneath, so I must have done OK getting everything back together. The final step before being able to put the rest back together and test it out was fixing the tensioner pulley/parking break lever. Recall that this tractor had no pulley when I first took it apart. Fortunately, the rest of the lever/linkage was there, because it is unique to the GT14. I swapped the pulley from the Charger, and then welded up the arm on the transmission to take out the wear that had accumulated over the years. I also had to replace the peg that contacted that arm, because it was worn a good part of the way through. Of course, with the tensioner in there properly, the belt that came with the tractor would no longer work so I got a NOS 8334 belt off Ebay. Delivery took a little longer than expected, but when it did finally come, it fit perfectly. At last, I got it all back together. It was time for the moment of truth. I started it up, slowly engaged the drive belt. No leaks or bad noises so far... pushed the lever forward... it moves! I started driving it around to the back yard for a more thorough test. Just as I got to the back yard, the tractor abruptly stopped. I disengaged the drive belt, took it to low idle and slowly re-engaged the belt listening for any bad noises. None were present, so I tried driving again. It moved a few feet and then stopped again, although less abruptly, and then just as quickly started again. After that instance, it didn't happen again. I suspect maybe there was just some air in the system that had to work it's way out. I drove it around some more in forward and reverse and everything seemed good. If I "floor it" from a stop, there is a slight hesitation before it fully starts to accelerate, but I can live with that. I tried backing up the hill that it stalled out on that started this transmission project. My heart sunk when it stopped at nearly the same place as before. Fortunately, my spirits quickly rose again when I realized my progress halted not due to the transmission, but because the tires were slipping on the damp grass. Further testing convinced me that things seemed to be working as they should, so I consider the repair a success.
  4. I hit the axles with a wire wheel and both sides cleaned up pretty well. The RH side was a little loose before I took it off. No one part looked significantly worn. I didn't look inside the LH hub after I got it off, but as tight as it was on there, I don't think the keyway was worn at all. Dave
  5. Good suggestions from all of you, but I'm happy to report I finally bested that hub, and fortunately didn't break it (or anything else) in the process. I decided to throw the kitchen sink at it. I had been going at it with the LH of the transmission still bolted to the tractor, so I took it the rest of the way off and put the RH half back on to better support the axle. Then I bolted it to a spare frame I had sitting around, but upside down so I could put weight on it to keep it from moving. I set it back up using the RH hub and a 7/8" bolt as a puller. I heated it up with the MAP torch like I had been, but then got myself an early Christmas present of an Oxy/MAP kit. It's more set up for brazing and cutting, but so long as I kept moving it around it heated up the hub without damaging it. Finally, that got enough heat into it that with a 3/4" breaker bar and a 4' cheater pipe it started to move. Once I got it to move about a 1/2", it started moving easier, although I wouldn't say it moved easily until the last 1/8" or so. It was quite a satisfying feeling to get that hub off. Still a ton more to do, but it was a nice little victory to cap off the weekend.
  6. I'm not totally sure I have solved the mystery of the clicking, but at least have a theory. As I said, I didn't notice it when I was driving, but did when I was pushing it around the shop. That moving it around and turning the motor by hand was after I had drained the fluid. The Charger wasn't as noticeable under the same conditions, but as I started taking things apart further I found out that the Charger motor had more fluid left in it, whereas the GT was mostly empty. I'm wondering if it isn't normal "gear noise" (or at least normal for a nearly 50 year old hydrogears) when the noise isn't dampened by fluid. Progress has been a little slow on the GT14 project. I'm still fighting with the LH hub. I've fought hubs before, but I'm not sure my little Propane/MAP torch can put enough heat into the the bigger GT14 hubs to persuade them to budge. The pulley on the Charger hydrogear was also even more stuck than the one on the GT14. Soaking, heating, pulling for a few days still didn't generate any movement, and then I tightened the puller a little too much and the fan part of the pulley actually broke off the hub. At least once the fan broke away it was easier to just cut the hub off. I hate to destroy a good pulley, but sometimes they just won't budge. With both the GT14 and Charger hydrogears off, it was interesting to compare the two. I know they are different models, but I was surprised that the GT unit has a different body casting than the Charger. The GT14 casting had a partition along where it would meet the top edge of the transmission. The Charger did not, so material could get down in there and pack the pockets between the motor and transmission. I also noticed the GT had regular hex bolts on the pump instead of 12-point bolts on the Charger and other piston/piston WH hydros I have worked on. I could also see the gasket for the pump on the GT14 had more excess sticking out than the Charger. It makes me wonder if the GT14 pump has been removed before. There were also other differences in the GT14 valve body in some port locations and sizes, and the acceleration valve caps did not have set screws, where the Charger ones did. I decided to take apart both pumps to see which one looked in better condition. First was the Charger. I was glad to see the slippers didn't look too bad. Some scratches, but none so deep that I shouldn't be able to remove or improve them with some polishing. The GT pump was definitely worse than the Charger. The same could be said for many other parts of the GT14 hydrogear, not a total disaster, but definitely worse than the Charger unit. So, the plan is to swap the Charger hydrogear for the GT14. Of course, that requires swapping the drive gear from the GT to the Charger unit, plus the hydraulic lift parts. Oh, and that stubborn hub still needs to come off. I've heated it up enough that I'm sure the axle seal on that side isn't good anymore, so just leaving it on there probably isn't a good option.
  7. Ron - I did not. I thought maybe they got stuck in my spam folder, but not there either. My email is in my profile, or you can private message me through here.
  8. One step forward, one step back... Work on the GT14 continued yesterday and tonight. The right hub came off with very little trouble. The hub actually would turn just a little on the axle, but I don't see any obvious wear on the hub or axle, so hopefully a new key will tighten things up. The left hub, on the other hand, is being very stubborn. I'm alternating heating, pulling, and soaking with penetrating oil, so hopefully it will give in sometime this week. While waiting on the left hub, I decided to pop open the transmission case. The little aluminum fan inboard of the pulley sticks out just far enough to interfere with taking the right half of the transmission case off, so I had to pull the pulley/fan off first. On my first attempt, my gear puller took a small chunk out of the pulley. I think I could probably get by with still using it, but I will see if I have any other pulleys that will work. With a little more finesse, I was able to get the pulley off without any further damage. With the fan/pulley out of the way, I was able to take the transmission apart. I was glad to see the screen still in good shape, and no metal pieces lurking in the bottom, but when the intermediate shaft came out, so did some needles from the bearings on each side. So, obviously both of those will need to be replaced, but I think the needles stayed in there until I took the shaft out. In checking the bearings for the input shaft, I turned the shaft, which was still engaged with the motor, and noticed a sort of ratcheting, pulsing sensation coming from the motor as it turned, which I think may be the "click-click-click" I heard before. The motor out of the Charger doesn't seem to do that, but I'm not sure which is the "right" way it should behave. For sure the parking brake needs to be repaired/replaced. I'm 3 for 3 on transmissions of this style being worn down. Work will continue as the week goes on. I'm pretty sure the pump/motor will have to come off to replace that intermediate shaft bearing, and it will probably be easier to replace if I uninstall the other half of the transmission from the chassis. Why do I feel like I"m going backwards on getting this project completed?
  9. Ron - I will let you know on the screen once I get it apart to see what the GT14 one looks like. Would also be interested in a B/C style parking brake pawl if you have one. Not a good weekend for doing anything outside, but the rain did stop long enough yesterday to get the GT14 out to try the new valves. It works better but still not sure it is 100%. It had no problem backing up the hill it couldn't back up before, although it still didn't seem like it was as fast in reverse as it should be. I noticed a few times after a directional change it would start to move slowly and then after a second it would fully kick in. It also still "groans" when going downhill and the pump/motor are trying to slow the tractor down. My Bronco doesn't do that, nor did it seem like the Charger did, or at least they aren't nearly as noticeable. Curious if anybody has any experience with that. I also noticed a "click-click-click-click..." coming from the rear end when I push around in the garage. It's more than just a noise, the transmission vibrates with each click. I haven't noticed it when driving the tractor, just when pushing it. I jacked it up and it does it when manually spinning the rear wheels. I wonder if it is something related to the limited slip diff? I was reluctant to start the next phase of work on the GT14 last night (I have a bad history with working on Horses on stormy Sunday's in November) but thankfully today it looks like we aren't going to get any bad stuff. I started taking it apart to fix the brake pawl and inspect the inside of the tranny. After I got the RH fender off I noticed the dual fan setup on the pump. It looks kind of hokey, but the parts book does show them stacked like that, so I guess it was made like that. Taking the belt guard off also revealed a secret, there is no tensioner pulley! The belt just runs direct from the engine to the pump and the tension is what it is. I didn't hear any belt squealing or see any smoke, so it seems like it worked OK, but it won't be going back together like that. We'll see what surprises are in store as the work continues.
  10. 12” Rims

    I run John Deere rims on my C-160 Auto for mowing and "Bronco 12" full-time. I like the look of the tires pulled in closer, and they take up just a little less storage space that way. On the C-160 I have Carlisle 23x10.5-12's on rims made for 8.5's. The narrower rims pull the tire in just enough to clear the hydro motor by about 3/4". It probably wouldn't work with wider rims. Figuring this out was purely accidental. They came on a Deere I had for a while, and I put them on the C-160 to try and it worked. For plowing, I put on 23x8.5-12 Firestones on Wheel Horse rims to allow more space for mud buildup. The picture of the Bronco is deceiving, but there is a little over an inch between the tire and the hydro motor with 23x8.5-12's. Now that I think about it, the rims on the Bronco were originally off of a Montgomery Wards, but the backspacing was the same as a Deere. Dave
  11. The woodgrain styling IS kind of growing on me. Unfortunately, I am at max capacity for tractor storage, so it is either the Charger or the GT14, and I've already mentally committed to the GT14 project. I do feel remorse when I part one out, but find solace that the parts will help revive another one. I did say it was too early to declare victory, right? Removal of the pump/motor on the Charger revealed only remnants of an inlet screen. Thankfully the screen cap was still inside the transmission case, but I'm assuming that pump/motor had at least some screen material and shards of the typical non-functional parking brake pawl go through it. It also wasn't a total surprise based on other abused parts that the axle and hub keyways were heavily worn. At least when the axles can spin inside the hubs, the hubs come off easy. I put the Charger valve parts in the GT14 valve body to give them a try. I still need to drain and split it to fix the parking brake, and see if it has a screen, but figured it doesn't hurt to see how much improvement the valves make first. Hopefully this weekend I will get a chance to test it again.
  12. It's far too soon to declare victory, but I do feel like I should buy a lottery ticket... I debated the best course of action for my GT14 hydrogear. Option A was replacement parts I found from local sources, but they weren't exactly cheap, and there was a risk I would put them in and find something else wrong. Option B was try to find a parts tractor with the parts I needed that was cheap enough that I could sell the parts I didn't need and recoup all/most of my expense. I took the gamble and decided on Option B. I scoured Craigslist for a parts tractor and settled on a well-used Charger. As seems to commonly be the case with these, the seller had sentimental attachment to the tractor but started using something newer and after going a season without using it, decided to sell it. Although it had the right parts, it wasn't running and the condition was kind of rough. I noticed some issues with the tractor overall, but it had good resistance trying to push it in either direction with the tow valve closed, and did what it was supposed to pushing it with the tow valve open. I decided to take a chance that at least the parts I needed were good. I don't know if I am the only one that does this, but as I started working on the tractor, I began to construct a bit of it's life story. The seller mentioned something about a front weight his dad used with the snowplow. I pictured a counterweight on the front of the tractor, but gradually pieced together from the lift handle extension and the brackets on the plow they mounted it on the blade. Not surprisingly, the additional weight and associated forces caused other issues. The hole cut in the hood for gas tank access wasn't just for convenience, the pedestal was cracked in several places, and pulled forward to the point that the hood was pinched closed. Also, I've seen cracked transmission mounting plates on frames before, but this was by far the worst. The tractor also had it's share of cracked sheet metal, brackets, and guards, and (yikes!) a makeshift cover on the air filter that clearly let unfiltered air into the engine. Aside from the abusive operation, the tractor revealed a few other interesting details from it's past. The Charger was missing a number designation from it's decals. It had a K301 on it, so I assumed the "12" had simply worn off over time. I noticed the oil drain was sticking out from the front of the engine, but assumed the engine had just been removed at some point for a rebuild and the oil pan just got put on backwards. Then I noticed a rectifier bolted inside the pedestal, which seemed odd since the engine had a starter/generator on it. Looking up the model number from the serial tag revealed that the tractor started life as a Charger 9, and the engine, or at least the engine covers, from a Charger 12 got swapped in at some point in it's past. So, back to the opening line of this post... In spite of it's appearance, with a good battery, clean points, and a new spark plug, the engine actually ran pretty well. The hydrogear functioned better than the one in the GT14, but still not as strong in reverse as some of my other hydro tractors. I wasn't sure if it was something internal, or similar to a thread I recall on here were flexing from a cracked trans mounting plate affected hydro functioning. After finding all the abused, broken, and worn parts on the tractor, I feared the acceleration valves would be no exception. To my surprise, I pulled them out and found all the parts intact and moving freely. Success! Of course the fun is only beginning. I now plan to pull both hydrogear units off the tractors and inspect the pumps/motors to decide which set to use. The GT14 pump seemed strong, but with the acceleration valve parts in so many pieces, it surely has had a fair amount of debris go through it. If I go with the one from the Charger, I understand I will have to swap the transmission input gear, but have already seen some good instructions on here for that part. I will post another update when I make some more progress.
  13. It's a wonder it even moved at all! I got the valves removed for inspection last night. The check valves were in good condition so I cleaned them and put them back in. The acceleration valves however, are a different story. Since my problem was with reverse, I checked the reverse valve first. The most obvious problem was the small spring was broken. Inspecting closer, I could see the spring seat was slightly bent, and the cone had worn a lip into the seat and didn't want to come out. Feeling a sense of satisfaction in finding what I thought was the problem, I figured I should go ahead and check the forward valve while I was at it just in case. Oh my! The piston didn't want to come out by itself, but fortunately the sleeve did. Once I got the sleeve out, I could see the piston was hung up on a lip it had worn into the sleeve. The springs were both a jumbled mess, with parts of them and the spring seat packed into the valve seat. I ran out of time to do any further inspections, but it's already aparent that most of these parts are pretty bad. I'm concerned what collateral damage might have been done elsewhere in the system. Going forward, I have three options at my immediate disposal that I could consider. Option 1 is I have a complete pump/motor unit from a C-160 Auto. I bought it from a guy who said he was using it and he heard a pop and then it wouldn't move in either direction. He took it apart to try to fix it, and taking it apart was as far as he got. I'm not sure of compatibility, but it is available to steal parts from, or see if I can find the original problem and swap in the whole pump/motor unit. Option 2 is a complete pump/motor/trans out of a C-120 Auto. It came out of a tractor I parted out and I know it works other than the tow valve being stuck, but I kind of was keeping it intact as a back-up for my main mow & snow C-160. Option 3 is to go with the Richie plan and install a 520H pump/motor/trans I got out of a tractor with a blown motor. It seemed to work OK before I parted that tractor out. Of course Option 4 could be to punt and go hunting for parts and/or a whole different pump/motor/trans. I've been toying with the idea of ditching the 15" wheels and swapping in 5-bolt hubs to use 12" rims with some Interco Interforce 27x10-12 tires, so shorter axle length might not be a deal breaker for me. Suggestions and opinions are welcome... Dave
  14. I'm still a little conflicted about modifying it the way I plan to. It's definitely a restorable tractor, but it's condition also is what makes it a good candidate for what I want to to. For the most extensive changes, I plan to remove the original parts and make new ones to bolt on, so if my plan doesn't pan out I can put it back to stock if I need to. I started the process of inspecting the valve last night. It's amazing how Wheel Horse could make the GT14 bigger, but yet there seems like there is less room to get to parts to work on them than the smaller models. It's definitely a different animal than the rest!
  15. My GT14

    Thanks for all your posts on this project. I came across it looking for some info for my GT14. I'm really curious to see how it turns out. It seems like your customizing ideas nicely address some of the shortcomings of this model. Keep up the good work!
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