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jebbear

Supporter
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    31
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50 Excellent

About jebbear

  • Rank
    Member

Wheel Horse Information

  • favoritemodel
    856

Profile Information

  • Location
    McClellandtown, PA
  1. The progress

    Looking good Matt! You're a lot farther along than I am on my project.
  2. My 856 Project

    Wow Sarge, that is a lot of information to digest! I sincerely thank-you for all of the great ideas and recommendations. I've been diligently studying everything you said and comparing it to my application. For the spindles, I've considered and like your recommendation of (2) 1-1/2" long Super Oilite bearings which would require trimming the length of both bearings. Or possibly, since I have approx. 2-7/8" of existing axle casting length, what is your opinion about using (2) 1-1/4" long, then trimming and squaring the bottom of the axle to accept one of the 1-3/8" OD x 1/8" thick high load oil embedded 863 bronze thrust bearings? If I go this route, I will probably need to shave about 1/16" from the bottom to accept the thrust washer which would leave about a 5/16" gap between the bearings as a pocket at the grease fitting. I considered the roller thrust bearings, but due to the added thickness of the bearing and washer(s) I'm a little afraid of the work and accuracy involved with trimming down the axle that much. Can't really afford any professional machine shop work right now, so I'm kind of limited to my own abilities . I also thought about the flange bearings, but McMaster's flange diameter is only 1-1/4" for my bored size, therefore, thought the 1-3/8" Oilite thrust bearing would give a little more bearing surface and if it ever did wear out I could just change the washer and not need to punch out the whole flange bearing. As far as the axle center pin, this is a picture of what I have now. Notice the wear points on the two extreme ends which correlates to where the pin goes through the axle support in the frame of the tractor. There is very minimal wear on the bearing points of the pin itself. Note, I also re-bushed this on my prior rebuild in 1986, again using (2) 3/4" ID x 1" long bronze bushings. Then I got to wondering, why did this wear the way it did at the frame and not on the bearing area. Then I remembered that when I dismantled the thing, the little bolt that holds it in was missing and has probably been gone unnoticed for a long time. I assume that this let the pin rotate in the frame and not the axle on the pin. Does this make sense or is this the way these things always wear out? Anyway, looking for a solution as far as do I need to replace/fabricate a new pin or any ideas on how to make this one work since the pin itself is in excellent shape with minimal wear except for the frame areas? Sorry guys, bear with me. I do tend to ask a lot of questions 'cause I'm never to old to learn something!
  3. My 856 Project

    That's correct, cpete. The measurements are the min/max diameters within each 1" bearing area. I used both a micrometer and a dial gauge and found that the dial gauge worked the best. I basically slid the gauge up and down the bearing area and also rotated 360° in the same area. There was a variance while rotating, indicating that they are somewhat egg-shaped. I just recorded the min and max readings that I got while moving the gauge within this entire area. I didn't necessarily capture which side of the shaft that the wear was on. I hope that clarifies this a little, sometimes I tend to not explain things too well. No, not an architect or engineer. I guess its just the old surveyor in me from my younger years.
  4. My 856 Project

    I hear you there, Sarge! My wife is always telling me why not just throw something away and get a new one. I guess its not in my DNA and still old school to keep and fix things until they are beyond salvation. I always attempt to fix things right to the best of my abilities the first time, & hopefully things will outlive me. What is your opinion on replacing my bronze sleeves? Should I go with a longer bearing (I originally used a 1" length) to maybe a 1-1/4" length on each end to engage part of the spindle shafts that have not seen wear? I have about 2-7/8" total axle casting length to work with, which would leave about 3/8" in the middle to accept grease from the zerk. Not sure if would distribute grease properly, but I could even go full length in the axle casting which would require turning the length down slightly in the lathe to adapt to their stock lengths. Is "Oilite" the way to go as opposed to the general purpose bearing? I see that McMaster lists several different options: SAE 660 leaded bronze multi-purpose (which is probably what I have now); Oilite SAE 841; Ultra-Low Friction Oilite SAE 841 with PFTE; High Load oil embedded SAE 863 (bronze vs. iron-copper); or the multi-purpose grooved bearing which I kind of like since it would probably distribute the grease better, but are a little more expensive. I am not really sure of the listed SAE differences for my application or which would be the most suitable. BTW, I also have the issue you mentioned with the fan gear block and even the center axle pivot pin joint which I was saving for future discussion, both of which I also previously re-bushed. I will post more pix at a later date after I make a decision on these spindles. Sarge, thank-you so much for the input. I read your other post on the D180 axle rebuild and was impressed with the quality and fine craftsmanship. Looks like a class A-1 rebuild!
  5. My 856 Project

    I have considered this and am still on the fence about it. My biggest fear is a method to seal dirt from getting into the rollers. I might be wrong, but it seems that a thrust washer would be a little tighter, though not as efficient, to prevent the introduction of dirt into the wear area. I'm really not sure though, and still might attempt this if I hear convincing support for the idea. I read another thread on this forum somewhere where someone else (I think it was "Sarge") did a major axle upgrade and added thrust bearings. I would be interested to know how well it is working. The other issue is a method to shave down the casting to allow for the additional clearance required. Not sure how to attempt this with accuracy. Thanks for the input.
  6. My 856 Project

    OK, now down to business. This is what I tore into today and thought I would throw this out there for any recommendations, comments, & opinion. Started working on the front end, specifically the steering spindles and front axle. More to come later on the steering shafts etc., but one step at a time. After reading several past posts on this forum concerning axle and spindle upgrades and repairs, the consensus seems that some prefer to bore/ream the axle casting and insert bronze sleeve bushings to minimize spindle play. Well again a little background on my project, as I stated earlier I did a partial overhaul back in 1986. Back then, I encountered the same issues with play in these areas. Remember that this was before the internet (at least for me) and specifically did not have the luxury of sites like Red Square nor did I have access to the wealth of knowledge that you guys have all acquired. So, not wanting to go out back then and buy all new spindles, axle, etc. I came up with a novel idea on my own to mitigate this problem and guess what I did. Imagine this, I bored/reamed the axle and inserted bronze sleeve bushings. I remember being scared to death that I was ruining a good tractor as I was cutting away in the cast iron, not knowing what the outcome would be down the road, if it would last, or if this would even work. I re-used the original spindles which had some play but at least I was eliminating the wear in the outer casting. So fast forward to today, knowing what I did then I couldn't wait to see how my backyard engineering had performed and went straight to this area first. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised that it actually performed better than I could have imagined. I had a lot of play again (remember, a half a gazillion hours later) which was expected, but the good news is that almost all of today's wear is in the bronze bushings and not that much new in the spindles. To the best of my knowledge, I think that almost all of the wear that I found today was what I found back then. I miked the wear areas and have posted these pictures to show my findings. Thought that maybe some of you might be interested in seeing how well this method actually performed after 31 years of service. Wish that I would have actually measured and documented the wear back then for a real life comparison but not the case. The indicated measurements on the photos are the min/max wear up and down the bushing areas which are somewhat egg-shaped, based on a full 3/4 inch shaft. Note that I used 3/4" ID x 7/8" OD x 1" Length general purpose bronze bushings, top and bottom in the spindles, therefore, there is virtually no wear in the center of the shafts between the bushed areas. The wheel shaft area of the spindles indicates wear at the point of the wheel ball bearings (see photos), but I did nothing back then in the way of repair. I basically just cleaned the wheel bearings, regreased, and reused the original bearings. So this is what I'm throwing out there for discussion, in your professional opinions based on my measurements, are these spindles still usable for another go around, assuming that obviously I will be replacing the old bronze bushings? I realize that there is still wear and there will still be some play which I can live with an ALMOST new but not necessarily an off the assembly line machine. Would you recommend any changes to the bushings, such as longer lengths to extend wear to some of the unworn portion of the shaft? What type of bushings would you recommend? I originally used the only ones I had available at the time, which were a standard duty plain bronzed sleeve bushing. I see that McMaster Carr sells all sorts now including "oillite", HD types, figure 8 grooved types, different materials, etc. Which of these would be the best option? I plan on changing the wheel bearings and possibly new shim washers based on assembly measurements this time around so, are the wear areas in the axle shafts anything to be concerned about? Any recommendations to mitigate this wear to insure the bearing spins on the balls and not on the shaft, or is this a non issue with new bearings? Anything else that you see that I should consider, anything I am missing, or any recommendations to further improve what I have would be appreciated? Sorry for the long post, but I tried to include all pertinent details to paint a good picture of what I am working with.
  7. My 856 Project

    I'm up near the fire hall off of 21. Glad to meet you, we'll have to hook up some time.
  8. My 856 Project

    Wow, sure is! I know where Desko Road is, your area?
  9. My 856 Project

    OK guys, you convinced me. Notice that a "Supporter" logo just appeared by my member ID!
  10. My 856 Project

    Thanks so much for your offer. I guess I should have started this project last month because believe it or not, back in December I already purchased from you a complete set of decals including Kohler items for the tractor. I know I probably put the cart before the "Horse" by buying these first, but I made the purchase up front as an added incentive to proceed and convince myself that I can make her look new again! I will consider the support member anyway, thanks again.
  11. My 856 Project

    Thanks everyone for the welcoming comments. Cpete - I already noticed how "miserable and nasty" everyone is here from reading some of the forum posts, that's why I am here. Seriously, you all sound like a bunch of dedicated and great people that are all part of a wonderful hobby. Ed, it is rather unique I think to have a 50+ year relationship with this same machine, that is why I shared the story. McClellandtown is located in southwestern PA, 50 miles south of Pittsburgh, actually closer to Morgantown, WV. I'll consider the Supporter idea.
  12. My 856 Project

    Hi all! Finally got around to starting this makeover on my 856. A little background on this tractor (1966 model - don't want to tell my age but you guys do the math), when I was a youngster at about 12 years of age, my neighbor bought this tractor brand new to maintain about 8 acres of property. I was intrigued and amazed at this machine as any 12 year old kid would be. So everytime I would see him out mowing, I would run over to his yard and he would let me mow for him (I know, he was probably a lot wiser than I was), just so I could ride around the yard on this sleek machine. I guess it was a win - win for both of us. Anyway, long story short and fast forward several decades, I ended up purchasing his entire estate after his passing, and guess what came with it. Anyway, after a gazillion hours between the original owner and myself, mowing and hauling and plowing snow, along with my dad maintaining a garden with it for years, I decided it was time to try and give her a new lease on life. She still ran OK, but I could tell she was getting a little tired and cantankerous in her old age and like any fine lady wanted to look young and pristine again. She has always been a true and reliable "work horse", which is what I still have in mind to this day. So that brings me to today, and here I am. I have pretty much completed the engine rebuild (which some of you guys have already provided some assistance in another thread) and have started into the tractor and chassis. This is actually the second go around with this machine, as I kind of did a rebuild back in 1986, just replacing some of the worn out stuff and giving her a quick shot of new paint. To reiterate, I couldn't even begin to estimate how many hours are on this beauty which I have no doubt is staggering, but I refuse to let her go. Anyway, that all being said, I am certain to have a bunch of questions for this undertaking which I am sure you guys have seen many times over and thank you all in advance for any assistance that you can provide. I guess I am limited as to how many pictures that I can post, but I will try to put a few up along the way. This is how she looked before I started.
  13. K181S Flywheel 231770

    Changed Status to Closed
  14. K-181S Crankshaft Bearings

    Thank-You so much for the reply, I guess that does make sense. Even for old guys like me its never too late to learn something new.
  15. K-181 Rebuild Issue

    Ed, I totally agree. I guess I am at the mercy of the machine shop as far as calibration, etc. I was also rather shocked at the plastiguage experiment which indicated a major variation between the two different types because I always thought it could be trusted.
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