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About manant

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    c 160 auto
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    Gladys, va

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  1. Here are the photos of the refinished valve plates and slippers. The guy at the hydro shop said that the motor valve plate was warped and that alone could have caused me to lose charge pressure. The parts were also scratched badly. You can see that the refinished parts are completely free of scratches. I also learned that 1. The pistons are completely interchangeable even between the motor and pump cylinders. You do not have to put them back in the original holes. I know the argument about the wear patterns etc, but to lap the pistons he removed them and put them into a special cylinder for the operation. 2. You do need to fill both the pump housing cavity and the motor housing cavity with oil before running the transmission. Both piston cylinders are supposed to be completely bathed in oil. I assume the filling will be a tedious task since the only way to do it is through the top ports like where the test gage is mounted. 3. The Gerotor teeth do not have to be in any particular recess in the outer pump ring. The outer ring has one more slot than the Gerotor has teeth and as the Gerotor turns each tooth switches to the next recess so that each tooth enters all of the recesses in the outer ring. So it does not matter where it starts. I will complete the transmission assembly on Saturday and mount it to run the pressure test. Wish me luck!
  2. Here is the latest news. When I removed the motor shaft again I broke the new retainer ring, the spiroloc ring and the washer. What I did not realize until yesterday is that when I pressed out the ring the shaft also pushed in too far and ruined my new needle bearing. In removing the damaged bearing I also ruined the other bearing and seal. I have ordered two new bearings and seal. My hydro shop had already ordered a new retainer clip and retainer, spiroloc ring and washer. He will finish lapping the slippers and valve plates and reassemble the motor cylinder for me. Will get them next week. While I am waiting I plan to replace the needle bearing in my pto housing. Anyone know how to get the old one out? I found a thread on this site but the photos do not show up because of photobucket. I think the ball bearing is OK but the needle bearing is missing one needle. I also want a c160 right hand tie rod. Mine had the ball slip out. I pinged around it to keep it in but I am sure that is only a temporary fix. Thanks for all the help. Marshall
  3. I really do not know much about these. The gerotor pump is inside the pump cavity and feeds the pump cylinder/piston assembly. Those pistons, cylinder, and valve plate were scratched which I assume causes a loss of pressure. The same with the motor, both pistons and valve plates were scratched releasing oil into the motor housing and back to the gearbox sump. I also thought that the problem might be a loose ball valve. I took them all out and they look undamaged, although the valve seats may be the problem. I do not know how to check the seats. The gerotor pump does turn. Thanks for the input,
  4. Today I took the motor and pump cylinders and valve plates to a hydro shop. The guy at the hydro shop put my valve plates on an optic flat machine and showed me how out of flat they were. He said if they are not perfectly flat the piston cylinder would “wobble” enough to lose charge pressure. He is going to lap the bottom of the cylinder. the valve plates, and the piston slippers. He also called the company you mentioned and ordered an new retainer ($20) and a new retainer clip ($20) plus the internal washer and spirolock ring. Looks like I am about up to $100 in parts and service.
  5. I went by the local John Deere dealer seeking help and a man gave me a lead to call a precision hydraulic shop about 65 miles away. I did so and was able to speak to a man who knows about Sundstrands. He said the slippers and valve plate specs are for flatness to be about 5 millionths of an inch. Since the lift had slowly lost power as the oil heated up he suspected that re-lapping the slippers and valve plates might fix the problem. My polishing by hand "probably" did not meet specs. Since the pieces are a lot smaller than what they normally work on he said it might cost me $40-50 for them to lap both motor and pump piston assemblies and valve plates. I am now going up to the shed to drain the oil, remove and disassemble the hydro unit and package them to take to them on Tuesday. Hope it works.
  6. I did not try the implement test with the 300psi gage, only with the 1000psi gage. I think it was just not enough to register on the 1000psi gage I have been using the side port to hook up the gages. It should not matter, but I think I will try hooking up to the port on top of the pump end cap. If I only get a 25psi charge pressure there, I will try the implement test with the 300 psi gage. Since I do have some minimal pressure and wheel rotation, I am thinking about putting everything back together and just try riding around some to see if something loosens up. Have you received my mail package, and if so what did you thing about the pump valve plate?
  7. I do not think my pulley has a keyway. The shaft has splines as does the pulley. The pulley definitely turns the pump shaft. There may be a broken key in the gearbox, but that should not affect the hydro pressure. I do have a minor leak in the lift control where the hose hooks on. Oil does not spurt out but it does drip. That should not affect the pump pressure very much. Both the motor and pump pistons had to be compressed to assemble the units, and the springs looked OK when I had it apart.
  8. Yes. I used a bolt and washers as the instructions said to remove and examine the spyroloc ring, washer, spring, and retainer. The spring was OK and I got rid of some burrs on the retainer. Everything went back together OK. I assembled the motor as the guide said. Tightened to about 3/8 inch, then put on the snap ring, o-ring and end cap, and then tightened the bolts the rest of the way. I did have to press down on the housing to compress the spring as I tightened the bolts.
  9. I mounted the hydro unit and the pressure gage only showed about 25psi at full throttle and belt engaged. The implement gage did not show any pressure. I do have forward and reverse motion on the wheels. I had previously removed all seven of the check/push/acceleration valves and inspected them and they looked OK. I guess one of the valve seats could be damaged and not letting the ball seat properly. The other guess is that I have not worked on the slippers and pump valve plate enough to get them completely scratch free. I thought they looked pretty good. The pump and motor do not make and loud or grinding sounds, in fact they are relatively quiet and seem smooth running. I am still puzzled as to why all hydraulic pressure was lost instantly. I know my lift pressure was dropping as the unit heated up, but I still had lots of forward and reverse power until I engaged the brake. I have noticed that the brake lever arm that the drive pulley engages is worn, but I can press down on the drive pulley to apply more belt pressure and I see no difference in the gage pressure. Back to square one and frustrated.
  10. I read the section on hydro rebuilding and am happy to say my unit was not in as bad a shape as the one shown. Mine is clean inside. I also read about the mating of the gerotor gears. I did not see any reference to that in the hydro manual. I also did not make note of the specific orentation of the gear sets. I know I removed the inner gear to check for scratches and may not have put it back in the proper location. It seemed to rotate properly. How do you figure out where they should mesh, or are they unsalvageable now?
  11. I was wondering if you have to pre charge the hydro pump. Do you just mount the hydro unit dry and let it pump from the gearbox reservoir or do you need to load the pump from one of the top plug holes. I guess if you poured oil into one of the top holes it would just flow to the gear box. I liberally oiled the pump and motor pistons and slippers when I assembled the unit.
  12. Paul sewt me a used pump valve plate which I received today. I polished it and have reassembled the pump and motor. I hope to mount it tomorrow and pressure test it.
  13. I have not taken the gear box apart but looked in and saw that the gears all turn as they should and the brake cog engages the gears when the lever is actuated. I think my problems are in the hydraulic pump and motor.
  14. Thanks. My brake is a simple toothed cog in the gear box. The external lever rotates the cog into place. I too thought the sudden stop could have broken something ( thought perhaps the motor cylinder spring, but the spring looks OK) In fact I have not seen any broken items other than those encountered yesterday and probably caused by me in removing the retainer clip. I had wonderd about "polishing" out the scratches on the valve plates. I do not know how much bronze one can take off and still get the compression needed. Regardless, that will be my next step before checking on new replacements. I did some minor polishing of the pump valve plate with 1000 grit emery cloth on a hard level surface and finishing with Brasso on a cloth on the same surface. I will do the same again and also work on the motor valve plate which is in worse shape with scratches. I think I can take a Dremel tool to the retainer (No 73) and clean up the burrs that the clip gouged out. That part should have a fair amount of tolerance since it just hold the clip in place. I will remove the burrs and polish the gouges. I will definitely need a new clip and will contact the local TORO dealer or L J Fluid Power if you do not have one. Thanks again
  15. Here is the latest. I did not know where to find a press to remove the motor cylinder. After some thought I remembered the screw jack on my cider press and used it to remove the cylinder. When it came loose it really popped. I got the motor piston assembly off and there were metal bits in with the cylinder spring. The clip was broken, perhaps by me when taking it off. I do not know if the metal bits are from the broken clip. The spring and Spiroloc retaining ring look OK. However the retainer itself was also damaged, maybe when I broke the clip. I also saw a broken needle from one of the bearings - probably broken by me in the process. The big problem may be the valve plate has deep scratches - can feel with fingernail. The Implement valve, Charge valve, push valve, forward and reverse valves, and acceleration valves appear to be OK. I also dismantled the pump to look at its spring and cylinder. They look OK, but that pump valve plate is also scratched - not as bad but still able to feel with fingernail. So far it looks like I need: 1. Motor valve plate No 69 on the diagram 2. Retainer No.73 on the diagram 3. Retainer clip No 74 on the diagram 4. Pump valve plate No 24 on the diagram 5. New needle bearing No.84 on the diagram I am sure I can get the needle bearing locally but am lost on where to get the other parts. If you can salvage them from one of your parts units I will be happy to pay you for them. I am still puzzled why the hydro unit stopped suddenly. I understand the gradual loss of power or pressure as the valve plates wear or become scratched, but the system stopped as soon as I applied the brake. Any help would be appreciated.