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jdleach

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jdleach last won the day on July 13 2014

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About jdleach

  • Rank
    Old Iron Monger
  • Birthday 09/15/1958

Wheel Horse Information

  • tractors
    1985 Wheel Horse 312-8
    1980 C-175 Black Hood Series I Twin
    1969 Wheel Horse Commando V7
  • favoritemodel
    312-8

Profile Information

  • Military Member
    Navy
  • Location
    Columbus, IN
  • Occupation
    Toolmaker

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  1. Tractors with hydraulics

    I am certainly not an expert on Wheels Horse autos, but can attest to the durability of the Eaton 1100. My C175 is about as worn out as a tractor can be and still run. Tach-Matic hitch points, brake lining, front spindles, wheel bearings, you name it. The one thing that appears to be good at this point is the Eaton hydro in it. All the blades were broken off of the cooling fan, and the oil and filter looked to be original, yet it still feels strong.
  2. Muffler paint?

    Although I am not 100% sure, I believe I used the VHT when I painted the Nelson on my 312-8 almost 3 years ago. Paint has held up damn good. I have no rust, but the coating has "grayed" to to an extent, and looks thin. Figure a light sanding to rough the surface and a repaint every few years will keep it looking good and preserved for the foreseeable future. Small price to pay considering the cost of a comparable replacement.
  3. C 175 , pig in a poke

    And therein lies the rub Sylvan. In the early days of the K platform, which was from 1981 till around 1988 or so, Chrysler trannys were top-notch. You had the large 727 auto for the heavier trucks and cars, and the 904 which was a scaled down version of the 727 for the smaller vehicles. For the front wheel drive autos, they just modified the 904. Same tranny, just had a differential. Things started to go south when they went with the lock-up torque converter, and only got worse when they became computer controlled. Read about some real horror stories. That said, the worst part was that Chrysler ceased standing beside their vehicles. What was in the 80s viewed as a defect by Chrysler, became a "feature" by the 90s and beyond. Microsoft has done the same in much of their software, and is a sort of inside joke amongst programmers. Case in point: Bought a 10 month old Dakota in 2000. Was a 1999 model. Had the 3.9 V6 with roller tappets. Roller tappets were first installed across the board in Chrysler engines beginning in 1988. Remember a TSB (technical service bulletin) coming out shorty thereafter because more than a few tappets would click pretty badly in cold weather during initial start-up. I put in several "kits" till I left the dealership. By the time I bought the Dakota, had it for a couple years (only 10K when bought), and it had around 30K on the odo., it started clicking. Took it to the dealer. I KNEW about the TSB (got a copy somewhere), and said as much when I took the truck in. I KNEW about the issue. I was told at the time that it was "normal". I have twisted wrenches for decades, and machined a lot of automotive parts and tooling, and that ain't normal. The tranny problem, along with brake pulsation, are a couple other issues that Chrysler has chosen to ignore. I own a Grand Cherokee, an '04 that I bought brand new (before the tappet thing reared its ugly head in the Dakota). Always ran synthetic oil, and never failed to service. Has 111K on it now. Always garage kept, and doesn't run or look nearly as old as it is. Except it has tappet clicking in cold weather. Get bent every time I start it in the winter. The thing that torques my jaws, is that Chrysler believes it can piss in my face, and call it rain, and expect me to believe it. SO no, I am not a die-hard Chrysler fan. I call them as they are. And has they were in the 80s, they were very good vehicles for the money. I am very reluctant to get another one.
  4. C 175 , pig in a poke

    Hmm... The 2.2 was the most powerful engine in its class at the time, and I rarely ever had to rebuild one. Unlike most 4-cylinders of the period, the cam design was such that, if the timing belt broke, you didn't scrag your valves. Catastrophic valve damage was the norm for most all the other engines made then. The 2.2 was indeed, a rough running engine. That is why Chrysler later came out with the 2.5 that had balance shafts. The drawback was that they lost horsepower due to the change, and were stroked to try to lessen the loss. As far as durability, I never seen any problems. In the Ford dealership I worked (after I left the Chrysler dealership), the Escort engines were another matter. Ford eventually changed the head design (the bent valve syndrome), but other weaknesses were still present. One such issue was the poor crankcase ventilation. Every Escort I ever worked on, had in short order a seriously sludged up engine, with thick deposits under the valve cover and on the head. Then again, there was the issue of the 302 with the poorly designed piston skirts. I saw a large number of them things come in with "piston slap". Slap produced a ticking noise very much like a weak hydraulic lifter. Over time, the piston would eventually wear into the cylinder bore where the skirt was slapping, and then break off a chunk of the skirt. At that time, and of the Big Three, Chrysler had the best engine control system. They were the first ones to use OBD, as it was simpler, more reliable, and MUCH easier to diagnose. Did not work on too much GM stuff, but Ford had a disaster in their EEC IV system. I recall poring through the "H" manual trying to figure out some problem on a Mustang, Thunderchicken, or truck, and having to drag out breakout boxes, wiring harnesses, and all kinds of other crap to chase down driveabilty problems. Damn H manual was as thick as a Webster's dictionary, and came in a very large ring binder (to ease the technician in inserting the continuous stream of changes published by the company). The diagnostic manuals at Chrysler were specific to each vehicle, and were rarely more than 50 or 60 pages. OBD proved to be such a good system, EVERYONE uses it now, even Ford. During the 80s, Chrysler had the better engineering, quality, and support. One only needs to review the numerous articles in the press at the time. Not only were they able to turn the company around with solid products, but they also were the leader in innovation. In 1984 they introduced the minivan (whether you like them or not, they were, and still are a very popular platform). In 1987 they were the first American company to completely ditch the carburetor, and go with fuel injection across the board. Even the Japanese still made carbureted engines for several years. Speaking of Chrysler in the years before, or after the 1980s is another matter, but during the 80s, they made very good products. Not perfect, but very good.
  5. C 175 , pig in a poke

    I am not sure on the wiring of any of the other model of Wheel Horse tractors, but on the C175, and I am pretty sure this is true of the smaller C-series of the same vintage, ALL of the voltage from the battery runs through a single wire through the ammeter to the switch. The only circuit outside of the battery-ammeter-switch is the starter circuit (actually it is in circuit, but in another leg). In point of fact, pretty much all vehicle electrical circuits that employ an ammeter use similar wiring. The reason has to do with what an ammeter does, versus a voltmeter. A voltmeter only measures electrical "pressure", while an ammeter measures electrical "volume". To better understand electricity and current flow, think of electricity as water. In water you have the pressure that moves it (pounds per square inch), and the volume, or how much water is going past a given point in time (gallons per minute). In electricity, voltage is the driving force that propels the individual electrons along, and is much like PSI, but is measured in volts. The number, or quantity of electrons moving past a given point in time, commonly called current, is measured in amperes (amps). One amp is equal to 6.2X10 to the 18th power of electrons flowing per second. That is a lot of the little buggers. To recap then, voltmeters measure pressure, or volts, and ammeters measure current in amps, or the quantity of electron flow. Simple. To accurately measure the flow of current in a circuit with an ammeter, you need to have all of that current flow through the ammeter first. You don't have this restriction with a voltmeter, as you can place the voltmeter anywhere in the circuit that allows it to measure the voltage of the battery. Of the two meters, the ammeter is the most useful. Not only can you tell immediately if your charging system is working or not, you can also get a good idea of what circuit is at fault if you have a short. Example: Tractor starts fine, and the current draw looks normal. If when the the starter is released the meter goes into, or stays in the negative (to the left of zero), you immediately know you are not charging. If it charges OK, but drops to the negative when the headlights are turned on, then you know you have a dead short somewhere in the light circuit. With a voltmeter, if you are not charging, it will take some time before the meter registers the drop in voltage as the battery is becoming depleted. Dead shorts will look the same way, and there isn't any way to determine where the short is, other than tracing the circuit with a multimeter. As we are all aware, voltmeters are used on all the newer tractors, while ammeters were employed with the older models. The reason is that voltmeters are the cheaper of the two to make. What this has to do with Glenn's sudden dead tractor problem, is that on tractors with an ammeter like his, the first thing to check is if there is voltage coming out of the ammeter to the switch. If there is, then you should probably look at the ignition switch, then all those miserable little safety interlock switches. I had the same issue with my C175 last week. Suddenly went dead. Found that the posts on the ammeter were corroded and not making good contact. A side problem was the corrosion had built up sufficiently that current was occasionally arcing from the posts to the meter mounting strap, thus blowing the 25 amp inline fuse. I posted this long missive so that others who have issues with their electrical system will have a little better understanding of how they are wired, and work. Once you have the basics, troubleshooting these tractors is really pretty easy, and do not take very long at all. Glad you found your problem Glenn, and you are making excellent progress. That machine is really looking fine now.
  6. Need Help Acetylene Tank Pressure problem

    Thank you for posting Michael. Praxair is my jobber now, and has been great so far. Used to use Indiana Oxygen exclusively for the family machine shop from the 1940s up until the mid-1990s. Around 1995 or so, IO began a policy of making all their customers prove they owned their cylinders. I remember taking my argon and CO2 cylinders down one day for exchange, and having the counter guy say I had to produce the receipt from when we initially bought the tanks. The guy knew me, my father, and my grandfather as well, so was familiar with our business. Told him that we bought the MIG cylinders sometime in the 50s, and I was sure we no longer had the receipt. Was told that if I could not produce said receipt, the cylinders would be seized, or I had to buy them again. Ask them to check their own files to find the records, and that request was refused. Needless to say, I never unloaded those two tanks, told them where to stuff it, and have never been back. Still have those cylinders. I figure I will eventually cut them up for scrap. Indiana Oxygen will certainly not be allowed to steal them from me. On another note. Since you work in the welding industry Michael, if you find any of the information I have posted to be in error, please do not hesitate to correct me. I don't weld as much as I used to, and some things are getting a bit foggy with time. I absolutely do not wish to steer anyone wrong.
  7. Need Help Acetylene Tank Pressure problem

    Thank you very much for the compliment Jim, but I ain't no Guru. Just picked up from my grandfather and father a few things about welding, then tried to round out my knowledge with a lot of years of experience. Made a boatload of mistakes along way, but learned from them. We used to use the pre-fluxed rods at the Shop, but gave them up. Cost was part of it, as they are more expensive, but the big thing was that they were constantly shedding the coating if they sat on the shelf for a long period of time (as can happen in a non-climate controlled environment. Changes in temperature and humidity would cause the flux to peel and flake away.), or the coating would get banged off. They are convenient though, as you don't have to have a can of borax powder beside you to knock over and spill (or rodents to piss in). At one time, I used to read everything I could lay my hands on about torches and their uses. Things like "wrinkle bending" tubing, cutting cast iron with a cutting torch (it can be done, but not easily), how to actually WELD cast iron, and the differences between true welding, and some form of solder/brazing. That last above is really interesting. Most skilled welders today do not know the difference between true welding, and some type of brazing. In a nutshell, true welding is when you apply the same, or similar type of filler rod to the puddle, and the filler and base metal actually mix to form a single mass. In brazing/soldering, the filler rod does NOT mix with the base metal, just simply adheres to it, much like a glue. Tin/lead and silver solder works this way, along with the various forms of copper/brass brazing. Welding cast iron, true welding, involves the use of gray cast iron filler rod, not some nickel alloy. You mention to most welders that when they weld iron with a stick welder that they are not really welding, they will think you are a fool. Truth is, the only way I know to truly weld cast, is to use a torch set with gray-iron rod. Whenever you use an electric arc to weld cast iron, you can bet your sweet bippy the filler is a nickel alloy. In arc welding cast, the nickel is deposited and acts in much the same way as brass in brazing. It bonds to the base metal, but does not actually mix. This whole bonding thing has to do with properties certain metals possess. The property we are concerned with is "affinity", or the ability of one metal to adhere to a dissimilar one. Brass has an affinity for iron-based metals, and so adheres to them at the correct temperatures. Lead/tin/zinc works that way especially well with copper-based alloys, although it also like ferrous-based as well. Nickel likes cast iron. But nickel isn't cast iron, so you are not "welding" with it. If you were to cut through a cross section of cast that had been welded with nickel rod, you will see a clear demarcation, or line separating the nickel weld and base cast iron. If you really want to hone your welding skills, try welding cast iron with gray cast rod. Damned difficult to do, but if done properly, when you are finished your part will not crack all to hell, and when you grind the weld flush to the part, you will not be able to tell where the weld begins, and the base metal ends.
  8. Need Help Acetylene Tank Pressure problem

    In all my years of using a torch set, I have never had arrestors or check valves on the sets I have operated. That said, I see the benefit. Whenever you have blow back, evidenced by a loud pop or bang accompanied by the extinguishing of the flame, hot partially unburned gas travels backwards through the tip and into the mixer. Although I have never seen it, I suppose if it is bad enough, it could travel all the way to the regulator. What check valves and arrestors do, is stop those sparks and gases at some intervening point. Makes the set safer, but in my mind performs a more useful function. That is to keep the carbon residue a blow back leaves from encrusting the innards of the passage ways. As for the difference between an arrestor and a check valve, I am not sure, but suspect they perform the same basic function, which is to prevent or limit gases from traveling the wrong direction in your torch passages. While you can have flash back from holding your tip too close to the work, one of the biggest reasons is improper order in shutting off the flame. Again, turn the oxygen off first, then the acetylene. As for the placement of the arrestors, follow the directions of the manufacturer, or ask your local welding jobber. My feeling is that whether you use the arrestors, or the check valves, I would want them as close to the mixer as possible. Since I have never used them, I just don't have the experience to say where the best position is. The flux you want is Anti-Borax #1, and is made by Superior. This stuff has been around for decades and works well. My shop was opened in 1946 by my grandfather and his partner, and over the years we used both Anti-Borax and Ferro Flux products. On the welding shelf I still have a can of Anti-Borax that is probably 40 years old (we would buy several cans at a time). Still has about 1/3 of a can of flux in it, but quit using it as mice got into the shop and pissed in the can. Flux still works, but I can't stand the smell of burning rodent pee. Got another can. At any rate, the flux sold today is the self-same stuff, down to the antiquated labeling. I would get a can from these guys online: http://shop.atlaswelding.net/ You may find the flux cheaper elsewhere if you want to look, but a little less than $9 a 1 lb. can sounds reasonable to me. I wish I could tell you to just go to your local welding supply, but you very likely will find they don't carry it. Columbus, Indiana is a very industrial city with a lot of shops and factories. Have several welding suppliers, but none carry Anti-Borax anymore. Not many folks left who know how to actually weld (not braze or solder) with acetylene, so it doesn't pay for them to keep it in stock. As for the tip, I would start with a medium sized one if you welding on the deck. the thin sheet metal found in the fender pan and hood will require one of the smaller sizes. If I remember correctly, most welding sets include either four or six tips. Pick one from the middle of the pack for the deck metal. I have long forgotten the tip sizes, and just select the one I need by the size of the hole. Another bit of advice. Although it is a little late, since you have already purchased your set, I suggest in the future that you limit any purchases of tips, mixers, regulators, and other hardware to one of the long time makers of welding equipment. The "big three" are Smith, Victor, and Harris. The first two firms are American, and Harris is Canadian. All three make fine products that will literally last you a lifetime. Victor and Harris may make or sell some cheaper models, and I would shy away from those, but overall, you cannot go wrong with them. The king, hell the emperor of torch outfits is Smith. Their top-line regulators and mixers are chrome plated, and beautifully manufactured components. Almost a work of art, and something you rarely see anymore. Of course the price reflects that high level of quality, but they are well worth the cost. I would look closely at the set you bought. It may very well have been made by Victor or Harris, and sold under another name. Try to find out who the real manufacturer is. Once you have determined who it is, and say it is Victor, you can then buy Victor tips and other parts, as they will likely interchange.
  9. Need Help Acetylene Tank Pressure problem

    Dan, as I wrote in my too long post above, you need a special flux for welding steel and iron. Used to be able to get Ferro Flux, but that appears to now be unavailable. The stuff you want is called "anti-borax". There are several makers on the web that sell it, one being Superior. Be aware that you don't want to breathe the fumes for an extended period, as there are health risks. However, in a well ventilated area, and not welding for hours and days on end, you should be OK. Personally, I have welded with it for years, and have suffered no ill effects. No risks like cancer, but the stuff has been known to cause lung and skin irritation. Coat hanger will work fine, just scrape off the shellac, or whatever coating it may have on it. I would ditch the check valves. If you want to ensure you don't have flash/blow backs, ALWAYS turn the oxygen off on the mixer FIRST, then the acetylene. One MAJOR caution I forgot to include in my first post. KEEP OIL ABSOLUTELY AWAY FROM THE OXYGEN TANK VALVE AND REGULATOR!!!!! Make sure your paws are not an oily mess when changing out your oxygen tank, and never let oil get near your regulator. If you somehow allow any type of oil to enter into the oxygen tank valve or regulator, you run a quite high risk of blowing the regulator up. The reason that this can happen is due to the "diesel effect". As you are aware, diesels operate without spark plugs because it was discovered that if you compress a liquid fuel (kerosene, oil) combined with air to a certain point, it will ignite on its own. The same thing can happen in your regulator. A minute amount of oil inside your valve or regulator can almost instantaneously heat to ignition when hit by 2500 PSI of pure oxygen. The results ain't pretty. It is rare that such an event happens in industry, as most folks who work with compressed air and oxygen are aware of the potential danger. It does happen occasionally though to persons who are unfamiliar with the risks, such as novice welders, backyard and basement mechanics and tinkerers, and scuba divers. Yup, divers. Many are not up on the diesel effect, and will carelessly stow or transport their gear, allowing oil to contaminate the tank valves and regulators. Do yourself a favor and read up on torch welding, and familiarize yourself on the dangers. While there are risks with using such an apparatus, they are great tools that can be used safely when operated intelligently.
  10. Need Help Acetylene Tank Pressure problem

    I own a machine shop, and have welded, brazed, and soldered about everything imaginable. After almost 40 years, have yet to blow myself up due to not bleeding the lines. Too, in all the shops I have worked in, not one ever bled the lines on a torch set, they only made sure the valves were closed tightly. The valves on acetylene and oxygen tanks from firms such as Airgas, Linde, Indiana Oxygen, and all the other big names, are the finest made, and are designed for extremely long life. They are made to be opened and shut repeatedly for literally decades. Their quality is the same as the tanks themselves. The oxygen tanks are designed to safely store at pressures well over 3000 PSI, although in practice I have rarely seen one filled to over 2800. The oxygen tanks are required by law to be "hydrostat tested" to ensure they have not weakened every few years. The pressure at which they are tested is about twice thew working pressure if I recall correctly. Every time a tank is tested, the date of the test is stamped into the tank just below the valve. To give an idea of how strong these tanks are, I have just recently gotten oxygen tanks that have dates on them that go all the way back to 1947. The above said, one will occasionally find a tank with a bleeding valve. If such is the case, take it back to the supplier for an exchange. The regulators are not so robust. Even with a high quality set such as Smith, Victor, or Harris, they are made to be adjusted only when different pressures are needed for a given job. When done with the torch set, lightly turn off the mixer valves (the ones on the torch handle), with the oxygen being shut off first (prevents popping and blow back). And I mean lightly seating the valves. Mixer valves are similar to the needle valves on a carburetor, and can be damaged by over tightening. Then firmly close the tank valves. Jerry is correct regarding the approximate pressures for different torch jobs. The only difference is that I normally leave my oxygen regulator at around 35 to 40 PSI, and just adjust the oxy. flow at the mixer for welding and brazing. When doing any welding or brazing, you really need some sort of "flux" to clean the metal as you apply the filler. In brazing (brass/copper alloy), you can purchase some specially prepared compound from your local welding shop, or you can save your money and buy a container of 20 Mule Team Borax soap. It is all the same stuff. Borax is the ingredient that does the cleaning. If you go the detergent route, make sure there isn't a bunch of additives. I buy the borax labeled as a laundry supplement, the stuff you add to your regular detergent to aid in cleaning, as about the only additive is a scent. To apply to the area, you heat the area to be brazed and sprinkle a bit of borax there, or you can heat your brass rod to a dull red, then dip it into the powder. When you heat the brass to melting, you will see the borax turn to a clear liquid and spread all about the joint, carrying away impurities as does. Dirty metal may require larger amounts of flux. Regarding welding steel, you can use coat hanger wire. A coat hanger is a mild steel very much like the steel used on mower decks, seat pans, frames, mule drives, etc. Shafting used in these tractors, along with mower blades are an alloy steel that contains other metals such as molybdenum, chromium, etc., and higher levels of carbon. You really don't want to use a hanger on these parts, and likely don't want to weld them anyway. If welding mild steel, you will also want to flux the weld area, but you need a higher temperature flux, as borax will not work very well. In this case you need to get the flux from your welding supplier or online. Look for something labeled FerroFlux, or similar. Make sure it is listed as being suitable for welding steel. In appearance, it will be a powder, but unlike borax which is white, a ferrous (iron-based) flux will have a reddish appearance. As a side note, a ferrous flux is also used to weld cast iron when using the oxy-acetylene method, and using cast iron rod. I will not go into welding cast iron, as it requires several added steps, and requires a high level of skill and experience, not to mention time. On the flame itself, there are essentially three types. They are carburizing/reducing, oxidizing, and neutral. Carburizing means you have more acetylene in the mix, neutral is a balanced mixture between the oxygen and acetylene, and oxidizing has a larger amount of oxygen. In most cases, you will use a neutral flame. Carburizing is employed when working with cast iron, and other applications, and a slight oxidizing flame can be used with brazing. I suggest looking up the numerous articles on flame types that can be found on the Web. They will describe what their uses are, and the actual appearance of the flame itself. Lastly, as I am getting tired of typing and have chores to do, I will add a couple things about the tank valves. As has already been said, you open the acetylene tank valve no more than a single turn, a half turn or so will usually suffice. Only enough to make sure you have sufficient flow and pressure when welding/cutting. The oxygen valve can be opened all the way. When you have gotten new tanks, before installing your regulators you absolutely have to clear any dirt from the internal threads and valves on the tanks first. You do this by "cracking" the valves before you screw on the regulator. After your tanks are securely mounted and chained/strapped to the cart, you briefly open each valve approximately 3/4 turn, then quickly close. The outflow of high pressure gas will blow out any dust and dirt from the opening. Make sure you are not standing in front of the opened valve unless you want to be injected with said dirt, or get a face full of smelly acetylene.
  11. C 175 , pig in a poke

    There are piles of those seats out the Glenn. Saw stacks of them at Mentone earlier this year.
  12. C 175 , pig in a poke

    Glenn, if it were me and I intended to use the tractor for anything more than the lightest work, I would put a metal pan on it. Given the history of these things breaking, it would be a shame if you inadvertently cracked it. To easy to just put it away for "show", and install the metal version.
  13. Got a handle on it.......

    Mike, I have had pretty good service from Exide batteries over the years. The batteries in my 1949 Ford truck, 312-8, and C175, are the Rural King brand made by Exide. Like you, have had little success from the cheap off-brand units from many of the big box stores. In regards to lawn and garden batteries, they always seemed to fail after about a year or two. The Exide in my 312-8 is in its third year, and is still going strong.
  14. C 175 , pig in a poke

    For those interested in the more esoteric things... Albert Champion, a world famous cyclist (bicycles), came to the US from France in 1905 and, after becoming interested in automobiles, formed the Albert Champion Company to import French automotive parts, and manufacture ignition components including spark plugs. This initial firm was in partnership with several brothers by the name of Stranahan. A few years later, Champion left the firm to work with William Durant, the creator of General Motors. After a time, Champion formed a new company in Flint, MI by the name of the Champion Ignition Company making, among other things, spark plugs. His former partners sued him over his name, as their firm still went by the name of the Albert Champion Company. Champion eventually settled out of court, though he had to change the name of his new corporation. Both of Albert Champion's business firms are still in operation to this day, and still making spark plugs. The name he changed his second company to? AC Spark Plug. And now you know... The rest of the story.
  15. C 175 , pig in a poke

    Well.... regarding the Champion/Autolite topic, I recall in the 1980s doing a stint at a Chrysler dealership. Found that the 2.2L, 318, 2.5L, all the way up to the 440 would run awful on the Autolites. Also found over the years that the Champions worked best in the 239 flatheads I have run. That said, had some issues with the last few Champions in my '49 Ford F-2, and am currently running Autolites. It does seem to perform better. On the other hand, my Grand Cherokee ('04) likes the Champions best. My feeling is that quality issues crop up from time to time with about all brands of plugs, and that accounts for variation over time as far as what works best in a given engine. The drive belt is an interesting item also. Initially got the wrong belt for my C175, and had to take it back and get the correct one. When it came in, it was also too long. Checked the part numbers, and it is supposed to be the correct belt. Looked closely at the ragged out one I took off, and found it is a Dayco L582. Translation: L= Lawn and Garden, 5= 1/2" wide, and 82 is the length. Why the 82" belt fits correctly, I am not sure. Worn out motor mounts could account for part of it. I almost exclusively get my belts from Toro. All the belts on the 312-8 are Toros, and the ones I have bought for the C175 came from them. Quality is top notch. Great looking tractor Glenn. Don't get discouraged, these are great machines, even if you have to work on them to get them running properly, and well worth it.
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